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IRB rankings and RWC 2015 pool draws

Why now ?

Apologies if this has been raised but wouldnt this be more appropriate in 2014. You could end up with the two best teams come 2015 in the same group or even worse the top 4 in two groups.

Whats the rush ?

Cheers

Maxy
 
We could even see a group A with 5 European teams, group B with all 3 American teams and group C with the 4 Pacific Islands.
 
Assuming Wales lose to Australia this is what I'd like to see in the groups (always fun to have a ponder :p)

Group A - New Zealand, Samoa, Wales, Europe 1 (Georgia), Americas 2 (USA/Canada)
Group B - South Africa, Argentina, Tonga, Oceania 1 (Fiji), Repechage (Uruguay/Russia/Spain/Romania/Portugal)
Group C - France, Ireland, Scotland, Americas 1 (Canada/USA), Africa 1 (Namibia/Kenya - eh who cares?)
Group D - Australia, England, Italy, Asia 1 (Japan), Europe 2 (Russia/Romania/Spain/Portugal)

A - Wales will bounce back, but Samoa are never easy at the world cup. And against New Zealand, they will have the crowd on their side as well. Georgia adds to the physicality, as would Canada who aren't weak.
B - 4 physical sides that will smash each other, while the last team if it was Russia or Romania would have big packs as well. Would make it interesting.
C - 3 Six Nations teams who all know each other well. Scotland could potentially upset both. USA (probably) will add to the competition and will be competitive although the final team may not be.
D - Australia and England having been in finals together go head to head. England being hosts makes it even more interesting, while Italy always go hard against the Wallabies. Japan could potentially shock Italy as well as that final European team (you never know).

In that A is the main group of death but all are very interesting and up in the air! It's gonna be interesting, hope we could get something like that.
 
I still think Canada are the favourites to be America's #1, I don't think we have quite the advantage that we did in 2007 and 11 qualifying but I'd still put us at 60-40. A lot of it depends on player availability though.

On an aside does anyone know how the draw is being run tommorow, are the pools being drawn top down(starting with band 1) or bottom up( Band 5 first). The first one is more logical though the second approach would probably be better from an entertainment perspective....(will anyone be breathless with anticipation about repechage and Africa being in their pool with it top down).
 
I still think Canada are the favourites to be America's #1, I don't think we have quite the advantage that we did in 2007 and 11 qualifying but I'd still put us at 60-40. A lot of it depends on player availability though.

On an aside does anyone know how the draw is being run tommorow, are the pools being drawn top down(starting with band 1) or bottom up( Band 5 first). The first one is more logical though the second approach would probably be better from an entertainment perspective....(will anyone be breathless with anticipation about repechage and Africa being in their pool with it top down).

This. Canada vs USA is very hard to predict this time round, in June Canada came out on top 28-25 but the USA missed some kicks which were crucial. I really can't split these teams to be honest, in June I would have said USA but in November USA were a bit more impressive. But then Canada were missing their trio of Mackenzie, Trainor and van der Merwe who are all always very good for Canada, as well as Kleeberger and Cudmore who were desperately needed at times to help the pack front up physically to the big Samoan challenge, although they improved their effort against NZ Maori to be fair. So this November whilst Canada were missing 1/3 of the starting lineup, USA were 100% apart from Manoa (but will he ever turn up for the national team?) and Ngwenya in the first two matches.

I think this match could be decided on which team has the most success in having their players fit, well prepared and available. If Canada miss out on Cudmore and their best three backs again I would back USA.

Regarding the pool draw. It will take place at 14:55 GMT, and will be streamed live on http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/ from the Tate Modern Art Gallery in London. I have no idea how they'll do it though in terms of ordering.

A - Wales will bounce back, but Samoa are never easy at the world cup. And against New Zealand, they will have the crowd on their side as well. Georgia adds to the physicality, as would Canada who aren't weak.
B - 4 physical sides that will smash each other, while the last team if it was Russia or Romania would have big packs as well. Would make it interesting.
C - 3 Six Nations teams who all know each other well. Scotland could potentially upset both. USA (probably) will add to the competition and will be competitive although the final team may not be.
D - Australia and England having been in finals together go head to head. England being hosts makes it even more interesting, while Italy always go hard against the Wallabies. Japan could potentially shock Italy as well as that final European team (you never know).

In that A is the main group of death but all are very interesting and up in the air! It's gonna be interesting, hope we could get something like that.

The amount of times I have heard people assume Russia have a big pack based on the other two Eastern European sides having them. It is totally the opposite, Georgia and Romania both have strong packs but Russia certainly don't and probably have the weakest. It amused me to hear the Canadian commentators raving about the improvement of the Canadian scrum when they faced what they called "the big Russian pack".

Just watch this Romania vs Russia highlights package for the evidence of how strong the Russian pack really is ...

 
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This. Canada vs USA is very hard to predict this time round, in June Canada came out on top 28-25 but the USA missed some kicks which were crucial. I really can't split these teams to be honest, in June I would have said USA but in November USA were a bit more impressive. But then Canada were missing their trio of Mackenzie, Trainor and van der Merwe who are all always very good for Canada, as well as Kleeberger and Cudmore who were desperately needed at times to help the pack front up physically to the big Samoan challenge, although they improved their effort against NZ Maori to be fair. So this November whilst Canada were missing 1/3 of the starting lineup, USA were 100% apart from Manoa (but will he ever turn up for the national team?) and Ngwenya in the first two matches.

I think this match could be decided on which team has the most success in having their players fit, well prepared and available. If Canada miss out on Cudmore and their best three backs again I would back USA.

Regarding the pool draw. It will take place at 14:55 GMT, and will be streamed live on http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/ from the Tate Modern Art Gallery in London. I have no idea how they'll do it though in terms of ordering.



The amount of times I have heard people assume Russia have a big pack based on the other two Eastern European sides having them. It is totally the opposite, Georgia and Romania both have strong packs but Russia certainly don't and probably have the weakest. It amused me to hear the Canadian commentators raving about the improvement of the Canadian scrum when they faced what they called "the big Russian pack".

Just watch this Romania vs Russia highlights package for the evidence of how strong the Russian pack really is ...



Yeah the more I think about it the more it's a total crap shoot between the sides, could very well be a 1-1 series again settled on point difference.(Last time the USA win was a narrow one in an absoutely dreadful game). The difference between Pritchard's goal kicking and the Eagles "kicker of the week" could prove a decisive factor. Crowley better abduct Cudmore if Clermont are being anal about releasing him.

I was LOLing at this commentary as well, and I have no idea where this myth comes from(Probably "they are from Russia they "MUST" be tough customers here" type thinking) the Russian scrum is the weakest in the IRB top 25, aside from Gresev, Kulemin and to a lesser extent Korshunov I don't rate any of their forwards at all, even Wooldridge was pushing them around.

Edit: Accoring to Melhor the draw is bottom up as it was in 2011, they felt that for the 2007 RWC draw top down was horribly anticlimatic.
 
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Apologies if this has been raised but wouldnt this be more appropriate in 2014. You could end up with the two best teams come 2015 in the same group or even worse the top 4 in two groups.

Whats the rush ?

Cheers

Maxy

You have to keep in mind that most teams starts their preparation for the World cup, the year after the last World Cup, like now. they start to build a team to prepare for the World Cup in 4 years time, getting players some valuable test experience and iron out problems that may arise.
 
Yeah the more I think about it the more it's a total crap shoot between the sides, could very well be a 1-1 series again settled on point difference.(Last time the USA win was a narrow one in an absoutely dreadful game). The difference between Pritchard's goal kicking and the Eagles "kicker of the week" could prove a decisive factor. Crowley better abduct Cudmore if Clermont are being anal about releasing him.

I was LOLing at this commentary as well, and I have no idea where this myth comes from(Probably "they are from Russia they "MUST" be tough customers here" type thinking) the Russian scrum is the weakest in the IRB top 25, aside from Gresev, Kulemin and to a lesser extent Korshunov I don't rate any of their forwards at all, even Wooldridge was pushing them around.

Edit: Accoring to Melhor the draw is bottom up as it was in 2011, they felt that for the 2007 RWC draw top down was horribly anticlimatic.

According to a Total Rugby interview with Kit McConnell, they are going to draw from Band 5 first, all the way up to build up.

As for the US-Canada series, I'm optimistic the USA can win but for us it depends on depth. If we lose someone in front row, we'll be screwed. There is not a lot of voer in the forward pack as a whole anyway, so health will be key. While Ngwenya would certainly help (as shown against Romania), I think the backline has played enough without him that they can handle that loss. Luke Hume has proved an exciting weapon, and James Paterson should return to at least one of the matches. Prop Mike MacDonald (most capped player in Eagles history) should be back, but whether he starts/plays is another thing.
As was the difference for 2011, I think it will once again come down to the final leg in Canada. I think that this summer/fall proved that for the first time in years, Canada has to be worried about the style of rugby the USA is playing. Before it was conservative crap but now they play to their strength in the backline. Wouldn't be shocked if it came down to less than 10 points difference.
 
I'm surprised you would rather Wales or Tonga over Scotland. There's no way Scotland have a better pack than a fully fit Wales with the likes of Adam Jones, Dan Lydiate and Alun-Wyn Jones back plus some others on better form, Wales' pack outplayed them in the 6 Nations this year.

With the lower bands, if you'd rather miss the more physical sides that have some big hard hitters and could bruise the side up you would want to avoid USA, Fiji, Georgia and Romania. The others are more lightweight teams.



That would certainly be interesting.

I agree that Wales generally are and have been a better team than Scotland but SA has a much better record against them as opposed to Scotland. So that is what I am looking at; not the general [erformance of the teams but their specific rrecord of performances against us.

This ranking is **** ... it is possible that Wales who lost three home games, is over Samoa and Argentina in the rankings?? If both defeated the Welsh at home .... get the **** outta here!!

Well, Wales are below Argentina and Samoa now. You should remember that Wales were quite some way ahead of both teams beforehand and you should rather read the rankings over time rather than at any specific point in time to get a clearer idea and that a loss to any one team does not mean that they should automatically swap; would you argue that France were a worse team than Tonga because the RWC result between the two teams was a Tongan win for instance.. no.
 
I don't want to take the sports spirit away but Americas 1 and 2, Europe 1 and 2 should be decided before the pool allocation.
This teams could even "decide" in which pool they would like to play.
 
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[TABLE="class: table_main"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="class: l"]1(1)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
NZL.gif
NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]90.08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]2(2)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
RSA.gif
SOUTH AFRICA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]86.94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]3(3)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
AUS.gif
AUSTRALIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]86.87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]4(4)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
FRA.gif
FRANCE[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]85.07[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]5(5)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
ENG.gif
ENGLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]83.90[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]6(6)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
IRE.gif
IRELAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]80.22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]7(8)
arrow_up_blue.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
SAM.gif
SAMOA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]78.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]8(9)
arrow_up_blue.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
ARG.gif
ARGENTINA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]78.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]9(7)
arrow_down_red.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
WAL.gif
WALES[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]78.39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]10(10)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
ITA.gif
ITALY[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]76.24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]11(11)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
TGA.gif
TONGA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]76.10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]12(12)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]
SCO.gif
SCOTLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]75.83

[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
Damnit. Now that England have beat NZ they've taken away almost 3 points that would have made an SA win over NZ next year so much more apatizing ITO points LOL; Now SA hosting NZ is considered on par ITO points (the hosting team get treated as if they were 3 points higher than their current points when doing the calculations).
 
yeah wtf, one victory and 3 pts for England !!! They were far behind France just like 2 days ago and now they're within a point ?!
Samoa 7th ?!!! best seed they've ever had I'd imagine...historical times for them.

And I suppose the big story right now is Wales isn't it...from 6N grand champs to 9th just above Italy...yikes.

As for the Tonga Scotland, not sure if it's impressive for TON to be this high, or just that the other teams around have played mediocre/bad (like SCO)...
 
Well this is it, Fiji is the first team to avoid, they go to pool A. And there goes Wales as well. Pool A is so far the one to avoid.

edit: tough luck England. Now, I just hope France doesn't get pool A.

edit 2:
Pool A: Australia, England, Wales, Fiji and play off
Pool B: South Africa, Samoa, Scotland, Japan and Americas 2
Pool C: New Zealand, Argentina, Tonga, Europe 1, Africa 1
Pool D: France, Ireland, Italy, Americas 1 and Europe 2.

Happy :) I guess South Africa won't be too sad either.
 
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Gah, woke up 4AM for this and the live stream won't work. I don't know why they insist on using Silverlight...:mad:

Anyway, we have our pools.
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR="class: mod2notZero"]
[TH]Pool A
[/TH]
[TH]Pool B
[/TH]
[TH]Pool C
[/TH]
[TH]Pool D
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: mod2zero, bgcolor: #FBF9F3"]
[TD]Play off winner
[/TD]
[TD]Americas 2
[/TD]
[TD]Africa 1
[/TD]
[TD]Europe 2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: mod2notZero"]
[TD]Oceania 1
[/TD]
[TD]Asia 1
[/TD]
[TD]Europe 1
[/TD]
[TD]Americas 1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: mod2zero, bgcolor: #FBF9F3"]
[TD]Wales
[/TD]
[TD]Scotland
[/TD]
[TD]Tonga
[/TD]
[TD]Italy
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: mod2notZero"]
[TD]England
[/TD]
[TD]Samoa
[/TD]
[TD]Argentina
[/TD]
[TD]Ireland
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: mod2zero, bgcolor: #FBF9F3"]
[TD]Australia
[/TD]
[TD]South Africa
[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand
[/TD]
[TD]France [/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
Pool A
Australia
England
Wales
Oceania 1
Playoff Winner

Pool B
South Africa
Samoa
Scotland
Asia 1
Americas 2

Pool C
New Zealand
Argentina
Tonga
Europe 1
Africa 1

Pool D
France
Ireland
Italy
Americas 1
Europe 2
 
POOL D

Pool D: Europe 2, Americas 1, Italy, Ireland & France

3.14pm:
POOL C

Pool C: Africa 1, Europe 1, Tonga, Argentina & New Zealand

3.14pm:
POOL B

Pool B: Americas 2, Asia 1, Scotland, Samoa & South Africa

3.14pm:
POOL A

Pool A: Play-off winner, Oceania 1, Wales, England & Australia
 
England could be facing a pool stage exit in their own tournament.:eek:

South Africa against Samoa again, sounds brilliant, also Scotland. Looks like they have a better chance of reaching the quarters this time around.

New Zealand vs. Africa 1...that might be Namibia. Easily the mis-match of the tournament.
 
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****. Already scared about the England-Wales Pool A game.

NZ have the easiest ride into the knockouts!
 
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