F1 Racing

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not really, it's just one achievement, I never mentioned his championships.

Fernando wins that championship in a good environment.

Ever think perhaps Alonso played a part in his own poor team relationships? It's all very well saying "if only the team got on better with Alonso" when he has a trail of teams he has burned bridges with.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

using sacred images to backup this case is heresy

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ever think perhaps Alonso played a part in his own poor team relationships? It's all very well saying "if only the team got on better with Alonso" when he has a trail of teams he has burned bridges with.

I said as much earlier, but this was the first and most bitter example and it was with Ron Dennis ffs.

Thinking rookie Hamilton was as good as prime Alonso off the back of 2 championships is definitely the harder sell given the circumstances and how Hamilton just barely scraped past Massa the year after.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

he won a championship unimpressively? Hamilton would have had a bigger lead going into Brazil if Alonso wouldn't have fixed the race in Singapore.

He beat Massa who was in the team that was coming off the double.

For as much of an ass Alonso is, people eat up his story on what happened in 2007.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I said as much earlier, but this was the first and most bitter example and it was with Ron Dennis ffs.

Thinking rookie Hamilton was as good as prime Alonso off the back of 2 championships is definitely the harder sell given the circumstances and how Hamilton just barely scraped past Massa the year after.

A rookie Hamilton shouldn't even have been close to a "prime" Alonso, yet he was. Again, it's mental gymnastics, we are talking Alonso supposedly at his peak and then Hamilton being poor yet Hamilton beat him. Here's a fact, poor rookie drivers DO NOT beat established world champions in the same car. So of course an excuse is needed right? Blame Ron Dennis. Ok, WHY? Why would Ron Dennis screw over his established performer who is supposedly so superior for a complete rookie who a certain segment of fans is the one with the attitude problem? Shits and giggles? It's all very well saying Ron Dennis screwed Alonso over in favour of Hamilton but there's always a lack of plausible explanation, just an assertion that he decided to do it. How many reigning world champions can you think of who have had their team screw them over in favour of a complete rookie? Again, exceptions, special pleading and mental gymnastics.

So then moving on to Mercedes, those that mocked Hamilton for the move didn't come back and say it was astute, nope it's just "he moved to the best car", so it's mocking when they thought it was a bad car and excuses when it turns out to be a good one. No win situation isn't it? Again Hamilton becomes the number 1 driver and people claim he gets special treatment but again no explanation for why, and again making out he has an attitude problem.

Then compare Alonso, terrible decisions throughout his career, renowned for destroying his relationships, held up as a great for 2 ***les. Hamilton makes astute decisions, beats Alonso moves to a team that ends up dominating and in both teams secures 1st driver position but somehow he is talentless, had everything handed to him and has an attitude problem.

Yeah, no mental gymnastics there whatsoever. I mean seriously, this recent exchange has proved exactly the point I was making. You started by denying you were doing it, and then proceeded to do exactly that. It's the equivalent of "I'm not racist but..."

As said, I'm not even a Hamilton fan but god damn the knots people tie themselves into to denigrate what he has achieved are ridiculous. Excuses, conspiracies, ANYTHING except entertaining the possibility that, just maybe, he is up there as one of the most talented drivers of a generation.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

he won a championship unimpressively? Hamilton would have had a bigger lead going into Brazil if Alonso wouldn't have fixed the race in Singapore.

He beat Massa who was in the team that was coming off the double.

For as much of an ass Alonso is, people eat up his story on what happened in 2007.

Didn't say unimpressively, I reckon he was in the marginally slower car that year but Alonso in an equal car >> Massa in a slightly faster one.

He also beat Massa in a team that was undoubtedly still benefitting from the insider information that they gained off that team, which cancels out Singapore imo. (They're both tenuous asf, the Ferrari pit procedure was a bigger winner for Hamilton than either!)

I've set my stall out anyway, Hamilton's rookie season was seriously impressive, but he's not comparable to the guy who dethroned Schumacher in it. Alonso fell out with the team for essentially the exact same reasons that Ricciardo did with RB a decade later (although Ricciardo was less justified re quali shenanigans). The team boss knew Hamilton since he was a kid, was English and a cheating egomaniac. Had that team been run correctly Alonso wins the championship.

Now, I don't buy that the team was making Hamilton's car any better and the fairly unforgivable **** up with the brakes in Canada was in no way nefarious but if you look at that stretch from Canada to Hungary it's where Hamilton gains most on Alonso and was when tension was at its highest within the team. When Alonso removed himself from it and worked with his own engineers alone he was better, same as before Canada.

Could Alonso have played it better? Certainly, but I doubt Dennis made him feel welcome in the slightest and blatantly made it clear Hamilton was his man, he didn't want Alonso in his team that's for sure.

I'd give the Hamilton was better than Alonso in his rookie season argument about as much credibility as Button being better than Hamilton as teammates because he scored more points in three years. Which is also ridiculous, Hamilton beat him twice.

A rookie Hamilton shouldn't even have been close to a "prime" Alonso, yet he was. Again, it's mental gymnastics, we are talking Alonso supposedly at his peak and then Hamilton being poor yet Hamilton beat him. Here's a fact, poor rookie drivers DO NOT beat established world champions in the same car. So of course an excuse is needed right? Blame Ron Dennis. Ok, WHY? Why would Ron Dennis screw over his established performer who is supposedly so superior for a complete rookie who a certain segment of fans is the one with the attitude problem? Shits and giggles? It's all very well saying Ron Dennis screwed Alonso over in favour of Hamilton but there's always a lack of plausible explanation, just an assertion that he decided to do it. How many reigning world champions can you think of who have had their team screw them over in favour of a complete rookie? Again, exceptions, special pleading and mental gymnastics.

So then moving on to Mercedes, those that mocked Hamilton for the move didn't come back and say it was astute, nope it's just "he moved to the best car", so it's mocking when they thought it was a bad car and excuses when it turns out to be a good one. No win situation isn't it? Again Hamilton becomes the number 1 driver and people claim he gets special treatment but again no explanation for why, and again making out he has an attitude problem.

Then compare Alonso, terrible decisions throughout his career, renowned for destroying his relationships, held up as a great for 2 ***les. Hamilton makes astute decisions, beats Alonso moves to a team that ends up dominating and in both teams secures 1st driver position but somehow he is talentless, had everything handed to him and has an attitude problem.

Yeah, no mental gymnastics there whatsoever. I mean seriously, this recent exchange has proved exactly the point I was making. You started by denying you were doing it, and then proceeded to do exactly that. It's the equivalent of "I'm not racist but..."

As said, I'm not even a Hamilton fan but god damn the knots people tie themselves into to denigrate what he has achieved are ridiculous. Excuses, conspiracies, ANYTHING except entertaining the possibility that, just maybe, he is up there as one of the most talented drivers of a generation.

A couple things you've had to ignore to come out with this

Hamilton was obviously a massively impressive rookie

I don't dismiss how good Hamilton is, top three of all time, take your pick of arguments for GOAT.

You should probably look into Dennis, and his relationship with Hamilton.

He didn't even beat him, they drew, and Hungary immediately fixes that if McLaren kept Hamilton in place like a team should.

"I'm not a Hamilton fan, but..."

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

View attachment 13541

I'm going to nick this image idea for future use.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm going to nick this image idea for future use.

Just keep it PG!

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Andretti is meeting resistance from toto and Horner which sucks. They are just arfraid of Herta showing up their golden boys and less influence on the grid.

Reports are that Haas denying Mazepin's ouster. I think Mick's sponsor want Mazepin or Fittipaldi in the other seat cause they know a competent driver would wipe the floor with him.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Magnussen outta nowhere.

There's a challenge for Mick.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

he's gonna get smoked. I believe there were rumors that it was supposed to be Magnusson and Mick but Gene wanted the money.

Also think Haas is gonna have to settle with Urkalali for breaching the contract. I think they should have kept Nikita around until Urkalali actually breached.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Haas managed to find the one oaf with a track record to match Mazepin in terms of being a danger on the track. Impressive. Is it part of the Haas advertisers strategy to get their liveries on TV entangled with rival cars while stewards run around putting out the flames? It probably is the only way they'll get TV time in fairness.

Steiner “tired” of repeated Magnussen F1 criticism

Haas Formula 1 team principal Gunther Steiner says he is “getting tired” of the criticism Kevin Magnussen continually faces and feels the Dane has become an easy target for rival drivers. Magnussen has come under fire from fellow drivers on a number of occasions this season for his aggressive...

www.crash.net

 

[ncurd]

What did I say about true innovation not turning up to the second test or the first race. Karen Horner already on the blower....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What did I say about true innovation not turning up to the second test or the first race. Karen Horner already on the blower....

Apparently it's been given the all clear. I love how different all the designs are this year and really hope it shakes things up, particularly if there are large differences between which cars are strong on which tracks.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Super exciting season, Ferrari haven't killed all hope yet, massive positive! I'm convinced RB still have something up their sleeve with the side pods that they're super confident with, their sidepods look blocky and they usually have the best aero.

The Merc looks great, it's so small that it should encourage more wheel to wheel racing.

 

[ncurd]

Super exciting season, Ferrari haven't killed all hope yet, massive positive! I'm convinced RB still have something up their sleeve with the side pods that they're super confident with, their sidepods look blocky and they usually have the best aero.

The Merc looks great, it's so small that it should encourage more wheel to wheel racing.

I'm just hoping we have 4 or more teams actually up there certainly more than 2. I enjoyed last season until its last dying moments where the ****le fully exploded into sheer ******* stupidity.

I also think having more than driver is more fun was it 2010 the last time we legitimates had 3 different drivers from different teams in with a shout?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Formula 1 testing: Red Bull unhappy with Mercedes upgrade in Bahrain

Mercedes are at the centre of a row over the legality of their car after introducing a radical new design at the second pre-season test.

www.bbc.co.uk

God Horner is such a ***...

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I like Horner. I have him down as a bit of a gent. The only thing I've disagreed with him on is saying Masi shouldn't have gone. Yes, he was under pressure but he destroyed an entire season with a cretinous decision and should not have been given the opportunity to repeat that.

 

[Reiser99]

Formula 1 testing: Red Bull unhappy with Mercedes upgrade in Bahrain

Mercedes are at the centre of a row over the legality of their car after introducing a radical new design at the second pre-season test.

www.bbc.co.uk

God Horner is such a ***...

A lot of interesting talk on BBC text updates.

Some saying that teams just complain when others are innovative. Others saying that even if it is innovative it can still be illegal. Definitely think Horner would have kicked up a fuss regardless.

What I found the most ridiculous is that supposedly the rules can be changed this year mid season if 8 out 10 teams agree (though I thought I read elsewhere that the FIA and F1 have a vote too.) Honestly how can that be a thing. Rules should be set at the start of the season and that's it. A team can spend hundreds of thousand even millions developing their car to get an advantage and so the other teams just change the rules to stop them. That's what could conceivably happen. If it does then it'll be just as bad publicity as Aby Dhabi. The leaders in the constructors table suddenly having an illegal car because the other teams that were losing decided to change the rules.

 

[Reiser99]

I like Horner. I have him down as a bit of a gent. The only thing I've disagreed with him on is saying Masi shouldn't have gone. Yes, he was under pressure but he destroyed an entire season with a cretinous decision and should not have been given the opportunity to repeat that.

I honestly find him slimy. I think he works hard to portray himself as a gent, but underneath it all he's ruthless and will do anything for an advantage.