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Euros 2024 - Germany

I might be slightly mad but surely Southgate's record at major tournaments is pretty good and consistent? especially when compared other super talented but not measuring up generations with multiple group stage exits and first Knock Out round a Quarter Final use to be the best we could do.

Also my perspective is Football at international level has gotten way more competetive in the last two decades.

I'm not a fan of the sport in general but the biggest issue to me seams to be more fan expectation management than actual lack of success under Southgate. It's team expected to go deep with the potential to win and there are three to four other that are and sometimes in that situation you get lucky and win and other you don't.
 
Yeh England fans are just desperate for the team to win a major trophy. There's still a big gap between expectation and reality.

The media have been awful to England mangers in the past. Remember how they treated Graham Taylor and putting a turnip on their head? And players read the papers and now social media and the **** they have to put up with. Individual players made as scapegoats.

Then there's the added pressure which is greater than club football because it's the whole nation behind them and they don't want to let them down. Not helped by not having won anything for 58 years. It's a millstone around the neck of each generation that plays.


IMO and based on 1966 3 things need to be in place for England to be in place - home advantage (England seen inspired to play better at home) a great manager (Southgate is good but not proved himself to be great yet) and a great team. 2028 and assuming England play all/most of their games at Wembley should represent their best chance. They just need to have a great manager in charge and team by then.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
Yeh England fans are just desperate for the team to win a major trophy. There's still a big gap between expectation and reality.

The media have been awful to England mangers in the past. Remember how they treated Graham Taylor and putting a turnip on their head? And players read the papers and now social media and the **** they have to put up with. Individual players made as scapegoats.

Then there's the added pressure which is greater than club football because it's the whole nation behind them and they don't want to let them down. Not helped by not having won anything for 58 years. It's a millstone around the neck of each generation that plays.


IMO and based on 1966 3 things need to be in place for England to be in place - home advantage (England seen inspired to play better at home) a great manager (Southgate is good but not proved himself to be great yet) and a great team. 2028 and assuming England play all/most of their games at Wembley should represent their best chance. They just need to have a great manager in charge and team by then.
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Oh come on, this is ridiculous. How is this any different to any other country. In fact it's 100 times worse in loads of other countries. England has an easy ride in comparison.

They're professional athletes/coaches. You say expectations don't meet reality but England have the best players on the planet in their team and apart from a couple of areas are arguably the strongest team in the tournament, they're favourites for a reason.

I just think blaming fans and the media is insane
 
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General Melchett said:
One of the main problems with England players is that they are pampered and mollycoddled at their clubs. Constantly told how great they are and in many cases they are the main guy/guys at their club. With England most of them are squad members and not the main man anymore.

For some reason they have never been great tourists and the players seem to struggle when taken out of their comfort zone - away from their mansions, sports cars, families and entourage etc. Some players like Bellingham are the exception to this. He seems to thrive regardless. I appreciate Southgate has tried to develop this 'club England ' culture but there's a long way to go IMO.
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I think you could apply this to any of the top flight clubs and players. The vast majority of pro footballers have known nothing from 12 - 16 years old. The academy structures ruthless and if you do make it you are on a crazy amount of money with little to no life experience.

I dread to think of what would happen if i was let loose on the world at 21 with millions in the bank.
 
Saintjay said:
I think you could apply this to any of the top flight clubs and players. The vast majority of pro footballers have known nothing from 12 - 16 years old. The academy structures ruthless and if you do make it you are on a crazy amount of money with little to no life experience.

I dread to think of what would happen if i was let loose on the world at 21 with millions in the bank.
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Don't disagree but I think the level of entitlement just gets worse as you go towards elite international players. You even see kids playing for PL clubs cupping their ears to the crowd as if they're Mess even though they're bang average.
 
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Welsh Exile said:
Oh come on, this is ridiculous. How is this any different to any other country. In fact it's 100 times worse in loads of other countries. England has an easy ride in comparison.

They're professional athletes/coaches. You say expectations don't meet reality but England have the best players on the planet in their team and apart from a couple of areas are arguably the strongest team in the tournament, they're favourites for a reason.

I just think blaming fans and the media is insane
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Because England invented the game (the modern rules anyway)- it's wrapped up in our national identity - there's a borish sense of entitlement. That's the difference. Why do you think we've had so much trouble with certain fans - England football team is how they express their patriotism? Especially abroad.

Other nations you pointed out no doubt have fanatical fans and media but I doubt they have the expectation of winning a major trophy that the England fans and media have. They're often just happy to be at a major finals.

I am blaming the overblown expectations on the national team on certain fans and media with all this it's coming home nonesense.

Yeh these are top sportsman, elite athletes but pressure does all sorts of things to make players play worse . All you see is how they play for their clubs and think they can automatically replicate it for their international team. They should but the reality is it's more complicated.
 
It was really interesting watching 99 the ManU documentary about their treble winning season. How they, despite having one of the best squads and best managers just kept failing in Europe and it became a noose around their neck.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
Because England invented the game (the modern rules anyway)- it's wrapped up in our national identity - there's a borish sense of entitlement. That's the difference. Why do you think we've had so much trouble with certain fans - England football team is how they express their patriotism? Especially abroad.

Other nations you pointed out no doubt have fanatical fans and media but I doubt they have the expectation of winning a major trophy that the England fans and media have. They're often just happy to be at a major finals.

I am blaming the overblown expectations on the national team on certain fans and media with all this it's coming home nonesense.

Yeh these are top sportsman, elite athletes but pressure does all sorts of things to make players play worse . All you see is how they play for their clubs and think they can automatically replicate it for their international team. They should but the reality is it's more complicated.
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You don't think Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, France, Italy etc etc don't have the same level, if not higher, level of expectation than England? Its a different level mate.
 
Kane really is the master of the easy tap in, to pad his stats, and doing absolutely ******* nothing else
 
One up then negative football. Players look like they're going to start falling out with each other. Half time can't come soon enough.
 
Southgate's cautious style of play is only accepted if it yields results. When it doesn't he cops more criticism because fans want their team to at least have a go. I think he'll be even more cautious in the knockout stages. Think he'd be better playing a system that gets the best out of the players rather than trying to get the players to fit in a system they're not comfortable with. Trent in central midfield isn't working.
 
Southgate wouldn't get a job for a team in the top half of the prem and if he managed one in the bottom half he'd probably get them relegated
 
Welsh Exile said:
You don't think Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, France, Italy etc etc don't have the same level, if not higher, level of expectation than England? Its a different level mate.
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Yeh but each of them have won a major trophy more recently than 1966. 🤔

As I said England have systemic problems producing the players and coaching from grassroots. It's too late by the time they get to England seniors level hence why the manager can only do so much. The media and fans expectations don't help matters but are not the main cause of England of
Meeting fans expectations at international level. And that means performance.

Tonight's performance was no surprise to me. It's been coming and it's laughable that they were being talked about as favourites. Still, they should still go through to the knockouts but it's there to see that when they come up against one of the big guns they'll get knocked out. History repeating itself.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
Yeh but each of them have won a major trophy more recently than 1966. 🤔

As I said England have systemic problems producing the players and coaching from grassroots. It's too late by the time they get to England seniors level hence why the manager can only do so much. The media and fans expectations don't help matters but are not the main cause of England of
Meeting fans expectations at international level. And that means performance.

Tonight's performance was no surprise to me. It's been coming and it's laughable that they were being talked about as favourites. Still, they should still go through to the knockouts but it's there to see that when they come up against one of the big guns they'll get knocked out. History repeating itself.
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It was predominantly English bookies. Most of Europe had France. Even if England made the finals before.

Equally this is probably the best batch of younger players England have in a long time. It's more not playing to potential than not being good enough.

Not convinced either by fan expectation for most following England football fans expect quaters and a semi-final at best. I don't think many England fans expect England to win at a major tournament.

A little like Wales beating the All Blacks. It's a distant memory for a few and more a 'Maybe one day' for everyone else.
 

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