• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Euros 2024 - Germany

lol - Belgium scoring twice and having both chalked off.
 
Broken nose and a yellow card for Mbappé. Face mask no doubt for next game he plays. Reminiscent of DuPont last year. Crazy that he's yet to score at a Euros.
 
Pleasantly surprised to hear Andros Townsend summarising the other day on one of the games, actually giving insight and sounding like he's bothered to watch the teams playing previously and was making comparisons.

Makes a change from the usual pundits just spouting tired cliches and rubbish.

Fabregas was in the studio talking tactics and giving insight while Ferdinand and Richards were either side talking about a players "swagger" and them being "up for it" as someone on social media pointed out, it was like having Paul McCartney sit in between Jedward.
 


Deciding how you want to play and who during the tournament isn't helping England. I suspect TAA will get the axe tomorrow for Gallagher. For nothing more than he still struggles with his back to goal and taking the ball on in tight situations. He only plays for Liverpool in midfield when in possession then back to right back when out. So it isn't natural. England lack a true number 6 and Rice isn't the answer either.

Other point is what Barnes says here - Foden and not getting the best from him.

Finally, the lack of pressing up front from Kane, Saka and Foden in the Serbia game after the first 35 mins led to England getting pinned back by Serbia and losing possession of the ball. Going to come back and haunt England sooner or later if not against Denmark.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Let's face it, 80% of the problems England have come from the fact they have Southgate as manager.
Click to expand...
He's only part of the problem. England have had the wrong manager since Sir Alf was sacked. There's a reason they call it the impossible job.
 
Whenever I hear Southgate speak it just sounds like he lacks conviction and any sense of authority. I think he is perfect for the FA suits because they just want a yes man who will tow the line and use a bit management speak at pressers. England need someone with a track record of winning big trophies (Tuchel, Emery, Ancelotti) and who has a bit of an ego in order to get more out of the players. Southgate just seems too soft and too close to the players. I also think he avoids picking players like Grealish and Maddison who he might see as too rebellious. I think he knows his stuff but would have been better for a behind the scenes/grass roots development role at St. George's park.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
He's only part of the problem. England have had the wrong manager since Sir Alf was sacked. There's a reason they call it the impossible job.
Click to expand...
It's not an impossible job at all, they aren't very good at recruiting managers. If you have La Liga player of the year, the prems player of the year and the bundasliga top goal scorer in your front line and you pay like a prime Conte/mourinho team then there's something wrong and it's not the players.
 
Welsh Exile said:
It's not an impossible job at all, they aren't very good at recruiting managers. If you have La Liga player of the year, the prems player of the year and the bundasliga top goal scorer in your front line and you pay like a prime Conte/mourinho team then there's something wrong and it's not the players.
Click to expand...
You're talking about individual players who play for clubs with foreign managers and surrounded by world class foreign talent. Take those individuals out and put them in an England team and it's a different story. England don't really have a blue print or style of play like the Dutch, Germans, Italians or French. It's not an accident that England haven't won a major tournament in 58 years with so many different managers - trying and failing. One could even argue 1966 was a fluke really, especially had VAR been around, where all 6 games were played at Wembley; like Euro 1996 and the last Euros all bar one game.

There's also the same problems in midfield that have plagued every England team I have watched - the English disease of giving the ball away is a recurrent theme; as well as Moving the ball quickly and accurately enough upfield and understanding how to create space and exploit it.

The premiership is a big impediment for the national team - with so many different styles of play and the division of ownership. The national team should be the pinnacle of the game in England, but it's not and club game is definitely top dog. That means clubs not prioritising English talent who are bought and sold at ridiculous sums. I think the stat is like 30% of players who play in the premiership are eligible to play for England, but not all of them are world class.

I have always thought Southgate will only get England so far. He's perfect for the FA. - being an FA man, good PR, no stories Ala Ericsson, Hoddle, Allardyce, he's also English after the failure of Ericsson and Capello. And won't rock the boat for the cash cow that is the Premiership.

As I said the issues are multifaceted and not all down to the manager.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
You're talking about individual players who play for clubs with foreign managers and surrounded by world class foreign talent. Take those individuals out and put them in an England team and it's a different story. England don't really have a blue print or style of play like the Dutch, Germans, Italians or French. It's not an accident that England haven't won a major tournament in 58 years with so many different managers - trying and failing. One could even argue 1966 was a fluke really, especially had VAR been around, where all 6 games were played at Wembley; like Euro 1996 and the last Euros all bar one game.

There's also the same problems in midfield that have plagued every England team I have watched - the English disease of giving the ball away is a recurrent theme; as well as Moving the ball quickly and accurately enough upfield and understanding how to create space and exploit it.

The premiership is a big impediment for the national team - with so many different styles of play and the division of ownership. The national team should be the pinnacle of the game in England, but it's not and club game is definitely top dog. That means clubs not prioritising English talent who are bought and sold at ridiculous sums. I think the stat is like 30% of players who play in the premiership are eligible to play for England, but not all of them are world class.

I have always thought Southgate will only get England so far. He's perfect for the FA. - being an FA man, good PR, no stories Ala Ericsson, Hoddle, Allardyce, he's also English after the failure of Ericsson and Capello. And won't rock the boat for the cash cow that is the Premiership.

As I said the issues are multifaceted and not all down to the manager.
Click to expand...
It's not all down to the manager. As I say, it's probably about 80%, though.

If you have the best players, which England sadly do imo, you're off to a great start. The fact they don't have a blueprint and all the things you correctly say in your opening paragraph is exactly what a good manager should be doing.

I do agree that England lack that Kroos/Gundogan player(s) in midfield but they're just so ******* boring to watch most of the time (like England under Borthwick) and you look at their players and think how is this actually possible and then you remember they have Southgate and it all makes sense. Long may it continue.
 
Welsh Exile said:
It's not all down to the manager. As I say, it's probably about 80%, though.

If you have the best players, which England sadly do imo, you're off to a great start. The fact they don't have a blueprint and all the things you correctly say in your opening paragraph is exactly what a good manager should be doing.

I do agree that England lack that Kroos/Gundogan player(s) in midfield but they're just so ******* boring to watch most of the time (like England under Borthwick) and you look at their players and think how is this actually possible and then you remember they have Southgate and it all makes sense. Long may it continue.
Click to expand...
He'll get the blame regardless. It'll be the same old story - England will get found out eventually and knocked out. He's already intimidated it'll be his last tournament.

But we're having the same old discussions of individual players shouldn't or should be playing and that changing it will magically make England winners. I think a lot of the problems are with the fans and media with their expectations of what England are capable of and overblowing it every time they qualify for a major tournament when England have no real pedigree at major tournaments - especially played overseas. Getting to the odd semi when they have had a kind draw and played well enough. Quarterfinals tend to be par for the course.

I've come to the conclusion that England aren't that great when it comes to international football. And whilst the manager is a big factor there have just been too many managers down the years to just be down to him.
 
Bada-Bing! said:
He'll get the blame regardless. It'll be the same old story - England will get found out eventually and knocked out. He's already intimidated it'll be his last tournament.

But we're having the same old discussions of individual players shouldn't or should be playing and that changing it will magically make England winners. I think a lot of the problems are with the fans and media with their expectations of what England are capable of and overblowing it every time they qualify for a major tournament when England have no real pedigree at major tournaments - especially played overseas. Getting to the odd semi when they have had a kind draw and played well enough. Quarterfinals tend to be par for the course.

I've come to the conclusion that England aren't that great when it comes to international football. And whilst the manager is a big factor there have just been too many managers down the years to just be down to him.
Click to expand...
Fans and media play a tiny factor imo. If anyone is looking to fans and media to explain a sports teams problems on the pitch they're massively reaching. Do you not think other countries have these same problems. Jesus, football fans in Turkey, Greece, All of South America and 100 other places are far more hardcore than England fans it's not even close.

Do you really think that players like Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Rice, Walker, Alexander Arnold, Palmer, Eze etc etc are not unbelievable football players, arguably some of the best players in the world especially of recent awards this season are anything to go by. Any international manager would fight tooth and nail to have players like that in their sides.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Fans and media play a tiny factor imo. If anyone is looking to fans and media to explain a sports teams problems on the pitch they're massively reaching. Do you not think other countries have these same problems. Jesus, football fans in Turkey, Greece, All of South America and 100 other places are far more hardcore than England fans it's not even close.

Do you really think that players like Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Rice, Walker, Alexander Arnold, Palmer, Eze etc etc are not unbelievable football players, arguably some of the best players in the world especially of recent awards this season are anything to go by. Any international manager would fight tooth and nail to have players like that in their sides.
Click to expand...
From a rugby point of view you look at the media and fan scrutiny of the All Blacks and they just deal with it. Similar story for the Boks.

As for the England players a number of them are extremely talented players shining in very good teams. I don't think for one second Bellingham, Rice, Foden etc are hanging on the coat tails of other foreign players. If anything it's just made them better.

Other than a few teams you could argue some of the England squad would get into any current international team especially the European teams.
 
One of the main problems with England players is that they are pampered and mollycoddled at their clubs. Constantly told how great they are and in many cases they are the main guy/guys at their club. With England most of them are squad members and not the main man anymore.

For some reason they have never been great tourists and the players seem to struggle when taken out of their comfort zone - away from their mansions, sports cars, families and entourage etc. Some players like Bellingham are the exception to this. He seems to thrive regardless. I appreciate Southgate has tried to develop this 'club England ' culture but there's a long way to go IMO.
 

Similar threads

Which Tyler
  • Sticky
Paris Olympics 2024
51 52 53
Replies
1K
Views
23K
AlRums
AlRums
Saints1
Germany vs Uruguay
Replies
17
Views
2K
silva024
silva024
S
Germany 4 - England 1
2 3 4
Replies
63
Views
8K
Teh Mite
T
Saints1
Germany vs Aus (day 3)
Replies
13
Views
2K
Saints1
Saints1
Haysie
We'll take a draw against Germany - Neill
Replies
0
Views
973
Haysie
Haysie

Latest posts

Top