[EOYT] Ireland vs New Zealand 24/11/13

[OneBlackEye]

Im not saying people should boo at a kicker but all the shushing at the rugby is totally retarded. Why don't they sit in silence when a hooker takes a line out throw? Respect the hooker! Also, every single time, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME, someone yells out quarter of a second before the kick and it must be way more off putting than just constant noise. I don't get it.

And. This a thread about the NZ v. Ireland rugby game. If a NZ poster that watched the game has a comment to make about the refereeing then whats the big problem? Aside from a normal percentage of idiots being idiots the world over, most posts seem pretty reasonable. Also, they won. If you cant make a negative comment about a referee in a game you've won then when can you?

I felt the style of refereeing in this game and the England game benefitted England and Ireland. I don't think the referees were bias or favoured one team over the other. I think the reverse has been the case way more often in the All Blacks favour which must be very frustrating for other countries and which I think has a lot to do with the lack of sympathy. One of the ABs (Richies) talents is playing to a referee and they have totally failed to do that in these last 2 tests.

The break down is such a massive grey area and if at the start of the game you are on the same page as the ref then calls will keep going your way while the other team gets frustrated and keeps getting penalised. Same thing happens at scrum time. You get to a point where you just cant compete.

I felt that often in these last 2 games opposition teams would commit an extra player to support a player being tackled that seemed to end up on the wrong side of the ruck and wouldn't allow the ABs to enter the ruck cleanly through the gate, not sealing off, not laying on the ball, just in the way. Hey, that happens sometimes but it seemed so often it was almost a deliberate tactic.

Anyway, that's my view, you can agree or disagree wherever you come from. I can say with all honestly that I yell just as much abuse at referees bad calls that favour the ABs as I do that go against them. I just love rugby and its a real shame the 30 guys on the pitch have to deal with all this ambiguity when it comes to the rules.

And can someone talk me through the ruck turnover at 54:12? What is 1 Ireland doing? Maybe I don't know the rules. Is he the tackle assist?

 

[InsaneAsylum]

WHO HAS SAID THE REFEREE IS BIAS?!?!

I'm sorry but I'm sick of this. How about some members read thge fucking posts of other members - instead of making broad generalizations about what New Zealander's think. I have yet to read a post which says the referee was bias. If there is one it's certainly not a trend. I thought Owen's made several wrong calls - I can point them out with footage if people need..

sorry for the confusion, not referring to anything specific on this forum. the kiwis I know personally are like this, if NZ don't thrash the opposition, then they are disappointed, not good enough, ref was biased etc.

 

[William18]

I don't want to sound superior or snobby but it is sometimes amazing how little some people who have played and watch rugby all their life really know about the game. I know someone who did not know the forward pass momentum rule the other day.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't want to sound superior or snobby but it is sometimes amazing how little some people who have played and watch rugby all their life really know about the game. I know someone who did not know the forward pass momentum rule the other day.

Oh you will find PLENTY of people like that. But to an extent I think many of us on this forum don't know everything (apart from Smartcooky). There's a difference in just supporting and in knowing.

If I have to use my own scenario. I only played rugby up to the end of my High School days (10 years ago), since then I have just been a supporter. My brother played until the end of his university days (5 years ago) and my father played club rugby when he was a lot younger.

When we watch a game together, I am always in a disagreement with one of them, purely because of the law changes. My dad, hates the recent technicalities and would always revert to the days when he played. My brother, and I have this healthy mocking relationship (because I support the Bulls and he the Stormers) and we see interpretations differently. Usually at ruck time, He always goes for the "he's falling over, and not supporting his body weight" defence and I for the "he didn't release the tackled player or showed daylight".

Point I'm getting at is that, not knowing everything about rugby, and different interpretations is what prevent this game from becoming boring.

 

[alexrugby]

Well done Ireland, seems NZs didn't expect that rough opposition

Well done

 

[TRF_heineken]

Comments like this won't win you many fans either.

I can understand that Irish fans may feel deflated (to put it mildly) and I certainly feel for them. As I stated earlier; I thought they would hold on to win this one. And I was certainly ready to offer my congratulations on a game well played.

But to blatantly state NZ didn't deserve to win probably says more about your attitude towards NZ than anything else Heine.
I get that you didn't want NZ to win, but the FACT is NZ did deserve to win. They played the 80mins.

If Sexton had got his kick, Ireland would have deserved to win because they had taken their opportunties and deservedly won the game.

By stating NZ didn't deserve the win you are intimating that NZ somehow cheated Ireland, or that NZ didn't deserve to score the points they did.
Which is complete bull5h1t.

As I say; your comment probably says more about your attitude to NZers in general than it says about this game.

Ah, of course, how foolish of me to think that you of all people wouldn't go on the attack...

I'm not trying to win fans, I'm just speaking my mind. As other NZ'ers have accepted my point of view, I'm of the opinion that this matter has been resolved amicably.

My attitude towards NZ'ers in general is of mutual respect. I respect guys like Nick, admartian, shaggy, to name a few. They are constructive in their approach and don't shoot down the remarks others make. You on the other hand, I don't respect at all. You have never been courteous towards me, therefore I won't be towards you.

If you perhaps read all my posts, you would have noticed that I frequently mention NZ players, whom I respect and look up to.

Deserving to win and stating that Ireland was cheated is a bit over the top IMHO. Once again, it was just my opinion on the matter and anyone is welcome to disagree with me, even you. I don't know, perhaps I expected a bit more from you.

 

[SelimNiai]

I don't want to sound superior or snobby but it is sometimes amazing how little some people who have played and watch rugby all their life really know about the game. I know someone who did not know the forward pass momentum rule the other day.

I had to try to explain that to my dad who was adamant that pass at the end was forward. Took an hour and I'm not convinced he accepted it

 

[Peat]

Something that must be pointed out in all this talk about the ref and the breakdown is this is the second game in a row where the All Blacks have felt hard done by. Once with a SH ref, once with a NH ref. If two top refs from different hemispheres both feel you got beat at the breakdown for large periods of the game, the likelihood is you got beat at the breakdown for large periods of each game. Certainly that's what happened on the pitch because it didn't matter whether you got beat legally, it matters whether you got beat. In the end it didn't affect the score, but if I was the NZ management I'd be looking hard at the breakdown and the amount of work some people are putting into it.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Peat, you might call Craig Joubert a SH ref but I don't, he's not anything, except an Andre Watson clone.
Watson used to whistle the losing teams back into the game on some bizarre personal crusade to create situations where his and I do mean 'HIS' games were 'closer' than those of other refs.
He was an infuriating prick and Joubert comes across like he is cut from the same mold.

 

[Amiga500]

If you are consistently getting beat at the breakdown, then perhaps you need to modify your approach to the breakdown.

Either within the match, or as a general approach to the game.


Its often pointed out how well great teams (like New Zealand) play right to the edge of the rules to get every advantage. Whats good for the goose....

Anyway, on Ireland...

Too many boys giving themselves pats on the back and losing sight of the fact that:

- we completely ****ing it up. About 10 different individual calamitous errors resulted in the defeat. Its all right saying "we'll learn from it", but how about actually learning from the other dozen times the same thing has happened. Talk is cheap. Does every player have to commit every single offence and cost a game before they each "learn from it"?
- we played NZ off the pitch for 10 minutes, more or less contained them for 40 more, then hung on for the last 30. We deserved what we got. Beaten. Look beyond the hyperbole.
- that was the last big push of the best generation of rugby players we've ever had... against a NZ team fatigued from big games against England and France. Paul O'Connell is not an 80 minute player any more and we've no-one close to replace him. Henderson is a brilliant 6 at this moment in time... but only a decent lock.

We are nowhere near where RTE etc would have you believe. If we finish higher than 3rd in the 6Nations I'll consider that punching above our weight.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Peat, you might call Craig Joubert a SH ref but I don't, he's not anything, except an Andre Watson clone.
Watson used to whistle the losing teams back into the game on some bizarre personal crusade to create situations where his and I do mean 'HIS' games were 'closer' than those of other refs.
He was an infuriating prick and Joubert comes across like he is cut from the same mold.

Well I think you just infuriated a lot of people, including myself with saying nonsense like this.

Andre Watson was much respected referee by all nations, who at most times upheld the laws and values dear to rugby. To say backed the losing team in his games, is saying that he was a liar and a cheat, and that all his games he blew was a farce. Including a world cup final!

Do you honestly think that the IRB would entrust both of these guys with the most important match in a four year cycle if they were biased against a specific team? How thick are you?

I wish we could go back to a time when there weren't so many idiotic posters on this forum. It's really starting to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. And I think all of my fellow saffas would agree that Jones Boy has just been added to our blacklist for attacking an icon in our rugby fraternity.

 

[William18]

Something that must be pointed out in all this talk about the ref and the breakdown is this is the second game in a row where the All Blacks have felt hard done by. Once with a SH ref, once with a NH ref. If two top refs from different hemispheres both feel you got beat at the breakdown for large periods of the game, the likelihood is you got beat at the breakdown for large periods of each game. Certainly that's what happened on the pitch because it didn't matter whether you got beat legally, it matters whether you got beat. In the end it didn't affect the score, but if I was the NZ management I'd be looking hard at the breakdown and the amount of work some people are putting into it.

It seems Hansen has a tactic of deliberately under committing to the breakdown so we have more players in the backline. It is hard to argue with 14/14 but we really cannot afford to lose the breakdown that badly.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Ah, of course, how foolish of me to think that you of all people wouldn't go on the attack...

I'm not trying to win fans, I'm just speaking my mind. As other NZ'ers have accepted my point of view, I'm of the opinion that this matter has been resolved amicably.

My attitude towards NZ'ers in general is of mutual respect. I respect guys like Nick, admartian, shaggy, to name a few. They are constructive in their approach and don't shoot down the remarks others make. You on the other hand, I don't respect at all. You have never been courteous towards me, therefore I won't be towards you.

If you perhaps read all my posts, you would have noticed that I frequently mention NZ players, whom I respect and look up to.

Deserving to win and stating that Ireland was cheated is a bit over the top IMHO. Once again, it was just my opinion on the matter and anyone is welcome to disagree with me, even you. I don't know, perhaps I expected a bit more from you.

I often take exception with what you write because I don't agree with it.
I don't know you personally so it's not a personal attack. Don't try to make out that it is.

"perhaps I expected a bit more from you" ?? what kind of nonsense is that??
How did I fail to live up to your expectations buddy?? By not sharing your opinion??!!? ....Geez...

I'll say it again Heineken as you have failed to make this clear: Why did Ireland deserve to win, and not NZ?

 

[Amiga500]

He was an infuriating prick and Joubert comes across like he is cut from the same mold.

You would do well to cast your mind back to the recent world cup final before running your mouth.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Andre Watson was an egotistical fellow.
Nothing more.
He would whistle teams back into the game if he felt they were falling too far behind.
He had a habit of only looking one way until the losing team Had done what he felt was their fair share of catching up.
I always felt that way with that maggot, it's my opinion and if you don't like it we can agree to disagree but the fact is I always felt that way about him and his style of refereeing.
Andre Watson was not a cheat.
It wasn't about cheating, it was about his ego. He was determined to referee close games, and it can only be for his own personal aggrandisement.
He was infuriating and a poor referee.

Steve Walsh is a narcissistic character, as much as likely to look at a big screen replay in the ground to check his own haircut as to watch the denouement of the game, he was/is however a good referee.
He doesn't whistle teams back into the game unless they deserve it from their quality play.

Craig Joubert isn't as bad as Andre Watson but he does have a habit of going to sleep a bit and spending periods of a game looking only one way and it's in those times he looks he is cut from the same cloth as the insufferable boor (please note that is Boor NOT Boer) Andre Watson.

and this...

I'll say it again Heineken as you have failed to make this clear: Why did Ireland deserve to win, and not NZ?

 

[Feicarsinn]

In other news, Rory Best has earned himself a status upgrade to top lad:

 

[The Jones Boy]

Tough bugger, good on him.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

In other news, Rory Best has earned himself a status upgrade to top lad:

what a guy lots of respect for him

 

[profitius]

Anyway, on Ireland...

Too many boys giving themselves pats on the back and losing sight of the fact that:

- we completely ****ing it up. About 10 different individual calamitous errors resulted in the defeat. Its all right saying "we'll learn from it", but how about actually learning from the other dozen times the same thing has happened. Talk is cheap. Does every player have to commit every single offence and cost a game before they each "learn from it"?
- we played NZ off the pitch for 10 minutes, more or less contained them for 40 more, then hung on for the last 30. We deserved what we got. Beaten. Look beyond the hyperbole.
- that was the last big push of the best generation of rugby players we've ever had... against a NZ team fatigued from big games against England and France. Paul O'Connell is not an 80 minute player any more and we've no-one close to replace him. Henderson is a brilliant 6 at this moment in time... but only a decent lock.

We are nowhere near where RTE etc would have you believe. If we finish higher than 3rd in the 6Nations I'll consider that punching above our weight.

I don't think Ireland deserved the win either but I think you're being a bit overly negative. No 6 nations side can match NZ.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

It's funny, crowds keep quiet out of respect for the kicker but any kicker will tell you that it's much harder kicking in silence than with a rowdy crowd.