[EOYT] England vs. Australia 02/11/13

[InsaneAsylum]

rugby as a product has taken a massive hit over here. even though we have been getting flogged for a while, there seems to have been a gradual drop off since RWC2011.

you would have seen it in Sydney, those empty seats once filled by fair weather Wallaby fans, donned in gold.... now it gives the impression that there are a lot of kiwis in Sydney

I'm not fussed though, I will continue to support the Wallabies. At least you wont see those randoms at games saying "I don't know what's happening, where's Billy Slater? Go Australia!", those guys can go watch AFL or Soccer for all I care.

 

[Darwin]

Not the most exciting looking Aussie side. They have some hardworking players in the forward pack (Moore, Horwill, Mowen, Fardy etc) but they lacking dynamic runners. Hooper is by far the most dangerous ball runner in the pack, though Timani can be effective at times ( when he catches the ball...). I feel Australia should be able to compete pretty well a set piece, but I think they missed an opportunity to test England at the breakdown by not including Gill in the 23.

The backline is likewise solid, but probably lacks a bit of spark - they will be relying heavily on Genia, Cooper, and Folau to provide individual brilliance. Toomua is solid at 12, while Kuridrani provides some pace and power at 13, but is very predictable. Cummins is a ferocious defender, but I'm not convinced he is up to test standard, and while I do like AAC he is wasted on the wing.

Overall I'm picking it to be reasonably close, but I think England look the better side (particularly at home). My prediction: England by 10.

 

[Chikwa]

Australian back line is strong and dynamic.How will their scrum stand up to the English scrum?This test will be an indication as to where they are in terms of the benchmarks they have set themselves and for the rugby union fan who appreciates what value a good Australian team brings to rugby .Equally for the English they have to begin to answer the question "Are we genuine World Cup contenders?"
Quade cooper as vice captain may well ignite their dangerous backs...,

 

[Darwin]

Australian back line is strong and dynamic.How will their scrum stand up to the English scrum?This test will be an indication as to where they are in terms of the benchmarks they have set themselves and for the rugby union fan who appreciates what value a good Australian team brings to rugby .Equally for the English they have to begin to answer the question "Are we genuine World Cup contenders?"
Quade cooper as vice captain may well ignite their dangerous backs...,

Strong (physically) I agree. I wouldn't call them dynamic though. Indeed I think this is one of the least dynamic backlines Australia have had for some time. Toomua, Kuridrani, AAC, and Cummins are all solid players who run hard and tackle strongly, but they lack creativity, and aren't massive threats with ball in hand. If Australia are going to be a threat in the backs they really need Cooper or Genia to spark something with their running games, otherwise they will be relying on individual brilliance from Israel Folau....

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Thanks for the response. Surely the media in OZ asked about the time line though right? I haven't read anything which suggests this was orchestrated before the team left. I trust you guys know what you are talking about, but if it were the ABs and McCaw getting the axe it sure as hell wouldn't be happening 2 days before a big test match...Unless something big went down....

I think that literally nothing in world rugby would cause a bigger drama than McCaw being dropped as captain.

 

[Peat]

Corbisiero is far superior in the scrum to Mako Vunipola, who offers more in the loose.

I must take issue with this. Vunipola is more eye-catching in the carry and offers vast amounts of strength and surprising agility in close quarters. But Corbs is fitter and cleverer. He will make more tackles, he will hit more rucks and in a lot of ways he is a better carrier. Vunipola oftens up, for my money, ends up going sideways a little as he looks to make the decisive break of offload in close quarters. Corbs is far more likely to simply get low and keep the legs driving and make more yards. Frankly, I think he is just a flat out better player, and rather underrated in his loose play because he doesn't make lots of eye catching turnovers or threequarter-esque runs. Corbs simply grafts hard and effectively doing the tight five basics.

The more I think about it, the more I have a bit of manlove for Corbs. Maybe absence makes the heart grow fonder, but I'd make a strong case for him being our best forward.

Also, I think the fact that Parling is smarter and better disciplined than Lawes probably deserves to be brought up in any direct comparison, and I think he's been a better carrier at international level as well, which is just funny. I would dearly love to see Lawes' ruck hitting stats as well. Plus, Morgan 2012 > Vunipola 2013 barring a sudden and marked improvement. I think the backs and the bench are stronger - the pack, uhm, hmm... yeah.

 

[ratsapprentice]

How will their scrum stand up to the English scrum?

The starting English scrum is a bit of an unknown - as has been said... I wouldn't expect it to dominate anyone.
The bench is a different matter, it's potentially very strong.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I must take issue with this. Vunipola is more eye-catching in the carry and offers vast amounts of strength and surprising agility in close quarters. But Corbs is fitter and cleverer. He will make more tackles, he will hit more rucks and in a lot of ways he is a better carrier. Vunipola oftens up, for my money, ends up going sideways a little as he looks to make the decisive break of offload in close quarters. Corbs is far more likely to simply get low and keep the legs driving and make more yards. Frankly, I think he is just a flat out better player, and rather underrated in his loose play because he doesn't make lots of eye catching turnovers or threequarter-esque runs. Corbs simply grafts hard and effectively doing the tight five basics.

I agree completely - think this is another case of me muddling my words.
I consider rucks and one out carrying to be tight work, whereas making big runs and offloads and all that jazz is loose.
I, too, think Corbs is arguably our best and most important player.
We could lose anyone else and we've got backups who can fill in without much issue but we lose corbs and we take a big hit.

I, of course, hope that I'm wrong on the last point and hope mako has the game of his life tomorrow!

 

[windsorroberts]

David Flatman's preview on RugbyPigs ...

England v Australia

A month ago I was looking forward to watching Australia get a spanking at HQ, but their display against New Zealand showed character, power and talent and I'm now a little concerned. With Corbisiero out for England, Australia might fancy holding their own at scrum time and, if they do, they could definitely win this. Add the fact they have been together since the Lions tour, forging a team against the best test sides in the world, and you realise England are going to have their hands full.
England's new centre pairing of Tomkins and Twelvetrees will be crucial and viewed as a potential weakness, but I see no reason why they can't thrive. They're both big lads with great hands, so the thought of them crashing the ball up with Yarde and Ashton poised on their shoulders is mouth-watering. England, with a massive pack full of form players, roared on by a full house, should have enough on the day.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Australia's scrum problem this year has been that they have lacked a tighthead lock. Simmons and Douglas have not given Alexander the support behind he has needed. Timani's return ( he did not play the Lions series this year) to the starting XV and at 120 Kgs or 18 stone 12 he is going give the Wallaby scrum a lot of weight on that side, so don't expect the Wallaby scrum to be a soft touch.

Rewatched the England v Wallaby match from last year on YouTube; it reminded me how inexperienced a captain Robshaw was: eschewing 3 penalty kickable penalty kicks in the 2nd half when only 14-20 down to go for a winning try. It kind of reminded me of James Horwill's Super 15 decisions in the 1st half of the Lions 3rd test. The lesson I hope Robshaw has learnt is to keep the score board ticking over when the points are on offer,as long as England have enough time to go for tries. The problem was that in the next game v SA Robshaw then took the 3 points when 10-14 down, with 3 minutes to go when England should have kicked for touch, 5 metre lineout and then go for a rolling maul. England then lose 13-14.

Hopefully, Robshaw will have learnt to make the right decisions under pressure a year on.

 

[windsorroberts]

David Flatman's preview on RugbyPigs ...

England v Australia

A month ago I was looking forward to watching Australia get a spanking at HQ, but their display against New Zealand showed character, power and talent and I’m now a little concerned. With Corbisiero out for England, Australia might fancy holding their own at scrum time and, if they do, they could definitely win this. Add the fact they have been together since the Lions tour, forging a team against the best test sides in the world, and you realise England are going to have their hands full.
England’s new centre pairing of Tomkins and Twelvetrees will be crucial and viewed as a potential weakness, but I see no reason why they can’t thrive. They’re both big lads with great hands, so the thought of them crashing the ball up with Yarde and Ashton poised on their shoulders is mouth-watering. England, with a massive pack full of form players, roared on by a full house, should have enough on the day.

 

[Wasps For Life]

Something Like 25-12 England..

Ashton to score and Everyone thinking his the best thing since sliced bread but will probably be the reason that Australia score one of their tries

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

As poor as Australia are, I think they'll win by about 5 points.

 

[Patchey]

England to win by a multiple of three.

Doubt it'll be pretty. After a long time without the first choice England side being together I reckon we'll be a bit rusty and have to rely a little too much on being 'hard to beat' rather than going out and attacking all out. Have to hope Farrell has his kicking boots on.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I really have no idea how this game is going to pan out.
I suspect it'll be reasonably tight though.

 

[SelimNiai]

Not going to be able to watch it so hoping I can avoid result until late Sunday when I can watch it

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/204429.html

lol.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In Cipriani's defence he's been one of the most consistent 10s in the premiership this season, and played George Ford off the park the other week.
Defence has improved immensely, and generally looks like a team player who can spark something, rather than a "maverick" who wants to do it all himself/forces things and shirks the rough stuff.
I've been a Cipriani fan since he burst onto the scene, and he looks to be on his best form since his ankle/leg break.

Wouldn't have him for England now, but if he can keep his consistency going, then never say never.

 

[Big Ewis]

As poor as Australia are, I think they'll win by about 5 points.

yeah, you mean the team that put 3 tries and 33 points past NZ in Dunedin only to lose by 8 ?

Well, they might suck again this time around, we'll see...and "as poor as" Australia are, they'll probably still win this by 5 points...because England are crap at Rugby, I mean, they're only 3rd world wide atm.
I know you may have not meant this, but come on man, just a little respect..

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

yeah, you mean the team that put 3 tries and 33 points past NZ in Dunedin only to lose by 8 ?

Well, they might suck again this time around, we'll see...and "as poor as" Australia are, they'll probably still win this by 5 points...because England are crap at Rugby, I mean, they're only 3rd world wide atm.
I know you may have not meant this, but come on man, just a little respect..

Actually that pretty much sums up my train of thought

You have to remember that the NH rankings are inflated relative to SH rankings due to the fact that they get to play other NH teams. I'm not trying to start an argument, but obviously a team that plays South Africa, New Zealand and Argentina regularly is likely to have fewer wins than a team that plays France, Wales, Ireland, Italy and Scotland regularly.

I actually quite like the look of some of the newer English players, guys like Wade look very exciting (though I don't know how Ashton is still being selected, I thought people had realised by now he isn't that good...), but that doesn't change the fact that they still appear to be going through a rebuilt phase. Particularly when compared to NZ, SA and AU who, injury permitting, have their top 15 pretty much nailed down, whereas England still seem to be blooding players who are viewed as possible starters for the next World Cup.

England are capable of putting on brilliant performances (against NZ last year), but they're also capable of completely capitulating (against Wales this year). That being said I still see them as the most consistent of the NH nations, slightly ahead of Wales and Ireland. Whilst England could well win this weekend, I see Australia as the favourites.

Just my thoughts