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EOYT: England v New Zealand, 01/12/2012

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett, Luke Romano, Charlie Faumuina, Victor Vito, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.


Clearly the #1 team, obviously without Hore who would be the #1 hooker right now I think. Really nothing between the three locks, Whitelock being the more senior and Retalick being the youngster and Romano has just been superb in his debut season in a test jumper.

Hope Carter recovers well, my guess is he still needs to prove he's fit.
 
I'm watching the telly and apparently there's 19 players have some virus affecting them.

SAF repeat? :snicker
 
I hadn't realised how inexperienced England were. Their most capped player is Dan Cole on 34? Only 3 are above 20 caps.
tbf, some of the highly capped England players are injured: Hartley (42), Croft (36), Foden (30), Flood (50).
Others should have more caps by now, had it not been MJ's conservatism: Robshaw, Barritt/Allen, Tuilagi, Wood, Sharples etc.

A lot does have to do with the lagging effects of having a DoR like MJ, and having to completely restructure the team because of all the wasted caps on players like Moody, Wilkinson, Hape, Tindall etc., with little thought given to the future.

That said, there's a strong backbone to this current team, particularly in the forwards, and they'll rack up caps quickly.
 
All Blacks suffering from Norovirus. Two are fit, apparently. Reminds me of that old Lomu v England joke...

Ah right. I only just made that commection.

Damn it. Why couldn't they all be ill last week? :( what the hell do they do if most of their team is down and out with this virus?

Most of them are on their way to being over it. Apparently the trainings have been horrid with everyone vomiting and using the bathroom - but everyone should be fine(ish) to play on Saturday.
 
Why is it always New Zealand who contract all these team-illnesses? I don't recall ever hearing a similar story for other sides.


At least if the unthinkable should happen and England get a result, there'll be Dorris to blame for spiking their Fish and Chips.
 
Why is it always New Zealand who contract all these team-illnesses? I don't recall ever hearing a similar story for other sides.


At least if the unthinkable should happen and England get a result, there'll be Dorris to blame for spiking their Fish and Chips.

I have heard of 4 to 6 guys in a team getting sick previously. But I agree that it's only the Kiwi's that gets the entire team to be ill. do they go to the Buffet table and use their hands to take food from the service platters? Don't they have manners? Using a hankerchief or their hands to cover a cough or a sneeze or a yawn?

Maybe there really is a sinister plan to make them **** all day long, as they aren't playing like that on the rugby field.
 
Why is it always New Zealand who contract all these team-illnesses? I don't recall ever hearing a similar story for other sides.


At least if the unthinkable should happen and England get a result, there'll be Dorris to blame for spiking their Fish and Chips.

1995 and 2012, what others have I missed?
 
Why is it always New Zealand who contract all these team-illnesses? I don't recall ever hearing a similar story for other sides.
At least if the unthinkable should happen and England get a result, there'll be Dorris to blame for spiking their Fish and Chips.

I'd be interested to hear your theories on the matter.

I have heard of 4 to 6 guys in a team getting sick previously. But I agree that it's only the Kiwi's that gets the entire team to be ill. do they go to the Buffet table and use their hands to take food from the service platters? Don't they have manners? Using a hankerchief or their hands to cover a cough or a sneeze or a yawn?

Maybe there really is a sinister plan to make them **** all day long, as they aren't playing like that on the rugby field.

 
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At least if the unthinkable should happen and England get a result, there'll be Dorris to blame for spiking their Fish and Chips.

The good thing is, that it's happened early enough into the week and the guys will have recovered a lot if not all by the time of the game, so there will be little room for any sort of excuse. Also, I'll bet you the high ground in any argument of New Zealand rugby arrogance/excuses/dirty tactics/player poaching/cheating/referee bias/over-ratedness/luck over ability or even general hate if that excuse comes out (poisoning) as a non-joke excuse. You'll genuinely be MR Right forever in a day in not just yours but my eyes as well. I promise. ;)
 
The more i see this game evolving more i think the only way England can keep the score line close is by playing aggressive and "streetwise" kind of game. Draw the all blacks into a street fight/scrappy game and it be easier if it was raining hard/muddy etc etc. We can't match them in other areas. To do that we need to have a intelligent defence to stop the all backs thinking quickly and hit them quickly stopping their devastating off-loading game.

To make is work we need to do the basics right. We matched SA for physicality and exceeded to some point. We need that again. BUt more importantly it worries me the lineout a normal England strength is getting wobbly.

Henrys post is correct we actually underestimate Parling when England need a big performance Parling delivers. He may not be flash and make dazzling tackles but he is SOLID, CONSISTENT and plays his heart out, and who can replace him as a lineout king?

I re-watched the game last night and it didn't occur to me how bad our lineout was.
BUT what was fantastic was how Parling helped Youngs re-find his confidence and brought him back into the game, he had little words/chats gave him easier throws to make and generally got Youngs through the game. You can see the pats on the back from Parling etc helping youngs made all the difference as youngs confidence was low. We have to applaud parling for that and i must admit i am not 100% parling fan but i am starting to like this guy.

So i think Wood was very good in the breakdown, and i hope he keeps getting better we seem more "robust" with him but we lack a more attacking/quick 6,7,8 combo without Tom Johnson.

Morgan needs to concentrate as i am sure teams have targeting our 8's as it is a little weak link. Both Waldrom and Morgan not the best in terms of defensive positioning.

And for all of us talking about Tuilagi being used more, its difficult as teams have figured him out and close him quickly and nullify him, Lancaster knows this and its upto Tuilagi to make the space for himself as teams have nullified his runs a lot now in international level, he can't run and do the same stuff he does for club level as it just don't work as he has Barrit.
 
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The more i see this game evolving more i think the only way England can keep the score line close is by playing aggressive and "streetwise" kind of game. Draw the all blacks into a street fight/scrappy game and it be easier if it was raining hard/muddy etc etc. We can't match them in other areas. To do that we need to have a intelligent defence to stop the all backs thinking quickly and hit them quickly stopping their devastating off-loading game.

To make is work we need to do the basics right. We matched SA for physicality and exceeded to some point. We need that again. BUt more importantly it worries me the lineout a normal England strength is getting wobbly.

Henrys post is correct we actually underestimate Parling when England need a big performance Parling delivers. He may not be flash and make dazzling tackles but he is SOLID, CONSISTENT and plays his heart out, and who can replace him as a lineout king?

I re-watched the game last night and it didn't occur to me how bad our lineout was.
BUT what was fantastic was how Parling helped Youngs re-find his confidence and brought him back into the game, he had little words/chats gave him easier throws to make and generally got Youngs through the game. You can see the pats on the back from Parling etc helping youngs made all the difference as youngs confidence was low. We have to applaud parling for that and i must admit i am not 100% parling fan but i am starting to like this guy.

So i think Wood was very good in the breakdown, and i hope he keeps getting better we seem more "robust" with him but we lack a more attacking/quick 6,7,8 combo without Tom Johnson.

Morgan needs to concentrate as i am sure teams have targeting our 8's as it is a little weak link. Both Waldrom and Morgan not the best in terms of defensive positioning.

And for all of us talking about Tuilagi being used more, its difficult as teams have figured him out and close him quickly and nullify him, Lancaster knows this and its upto Tuilagi to make the space for himself as teams have nullified his runs a lot now in international level, he can't run and do the same stuff he does for quins as it just don't work as he has Barrit.

Excellent all round post. How long has this guy been with TRF?!!! I think your right. If England can keep the AB's involved in a close, flat stoush, they may have a better chance and if it's a bit dewy and they force a few errors early, then the day could be theirs. They need to get a bit of parity or advantage early in the game and hold it into the half. Then the AB's panic a bit and it can be a harder job for them to force their hand. England can do it with a really tightly defended and well handled attack in the first half.
 
Welcome back TRF CA Iverson!

Was this an attempt to be considered for Comeback of the year with the TRFies?

Does it count for moderators though??
 
Welcome back TRF CA Iverson!

Was this an attempt to be considered for Comeback of the year with the TRFies?

Does it count for moderators though??

Not a moderator anymore (as far as I know). Wasn't a consideration of mine (any award). Just thought about TRf and thought, "Why don't I post anymore" and I thought "I know. I'm worried that I'll have to explain myself too much (in a mod way to the staff) if I go into subjects in an unrestricted, unfiltered way and I can't be bothered with all that". Then I remembered, "I'm not a mod anymore. If they don't like any of my raw, uncensored to-the-pointery, they can show me the door".

Although I'm sure they're not against that stuff and I'm not looking to get myself banned. Just being me.

Hey, weren't you one of those guys I used to argue with anyhow? :lol:
 
Not a moderator anymore (as far as I know). Wasn't a consideration of mine (any award). Just thought about TRf and thought, "Why don't I post anymore" and I thought "I know. I'm worried that I'll have to explain myself too much (in a mod way to the staff) if I go into subjects in an unrestricted, unfiltered way and I can't be bothered with all that". Then I remembered, "I'm not a mod anymore. If they don't like any of my raw, uncensored to-the-pointery, they can show me the door".

Although I'm sure they're not against that stuff and I'm not looking to get myself banned. Just being me.

Hey, weren't you one of those guys I used to argue with anyhow? :lol:

Yes I was, well some times at least... It's natural, you're a kiwi and I'm a bok... we are bound to clash...

Anyways, welcome back, your to-the-pointery was always welcomed by me...
 
Agree with what mstar says - I think Parling could well turn into one of England's unofficial captains, something we desperately need. IN the glory days of 2003 and the lead up to that world cup, Johnno was capt, but there were 5 guys on the field who had equally good leadership qualities that drove the team forward. Whether Lancaster keeps with Robshaw (I would, unless his performances don't merit his inclusion) or goes with someone else (Wood?), we will need the emergence of senior players to grab the team and the game by the scruff of the neck at times: Parling is one such player.

As for Tuliagi, yes he's been found out to an extent, but that's only because he and England expect him to do too much. He needs support first and foremost - when he gets that I think he could be England's Ma'a Nonu in time - he's only young and has plenty of time to develop.
 
i agree we need more then 1 captain on the field, Standardprocedure .

We do miss an enforcer type of player but to be honest i miss the "backchat" you used to get from MJ/Dallaghio etc to the ref lolz

As Geech said "test match animals - In some situations – and they might only occur six or seven times a season – certain players have the animal instinct to survive and dig deep to unbelievable levels not seen before.... and there skill bravery is going to make the difference whether his team win or lose. To have that animal bravery, to know what they are doing is stupid, but to do it anyway with the conviction that it will tilt a game is a special gift".

You look in this England side i can't see anyone, you look in All blacks you can see 2-3 players.

In fact the captain thing is interesting to me as well i hope Robshaw turns into a good captain

who can remember England vs New Zealand, When England were down to six forwards against the All Blacks, when Lawrence Dallaglio and Neil Back were in the bin, Martin Johnson stood up and had a angry talk with the side and he took the responsibility HIMSELF to see his team through that period and guess who had his hands on the ball most for the next 10 minutes? At the line-out, on the carry at the breakdown/recycling the ball -the captain MJ!

If you look at the England side the only player i see who is close to that level is Robshaw nobody stands out for me. Maybe more skillfull/intelligent etc but as a leader nobody stands out and thats what Lancaster (particularly Rowntree who see it with MJ/LD etc) see. So i don;t see a change in captain while Robshaw is fit.

All these people bashing Robshaw is all silly, so give him time please then we can judge.
 
i agree we need more then 1 captain on the field, Standardprocedure .

We do miss an enforcer type of player but to be honest i miss the "backchat" you used to get from MJ/Dallaghio etc to the ref lolz

As Geech said "test match animals - In some situations – and they might only occur six or seven times a season – certain players have the animal instinct to survive and dig deep to unbelievable levels not seen before.... and there skill bravery is going to make the difference whether his team win or lose. To have that animal bravery, to know what they are doing is stupid, but to do it anyway with the conviction that it will tilt a game is a special gift".

You look in this England side i can't see anyone, you look in All blacks you can see 2-3 players.

In fact the captain thing is interesting to me as well i hope Robshaw turns into a good captain

who can remember England vs New Zealand, When England were down to six forwards against the All Blacks, when Lawrence Dallaglio and Neil Back were in the bin, Martin Johnson stood up and had a angry talk with the side and he took the responsibility HIMSELF to see his team through that period and guess who had his hands on the ball most for the next 10 minutes? At the line-out, on the carry at the breakdown/recycling the ball -the captain MJ!

If you look at the England side the only player i see who is close to that level is Robshaw nobody stands out for me. Maybe more skillfull/intelligent etc but as a leader nobody stands out and thats what Lancaster (particularly Rowntree who see it with MJ/LD etc) see. So i don;t see a change in captain while Robshaw is fit.

All these people bashing Robshaw is all silly, so give him time please then we can judge.

That quote shows your insight and I'm pleased to say I agree with them. England could do with some well-self-controlled animals, example/hunger setters and leaders. It makes a difference.
 
Not a moderator anymore (as far as I know). Wasn't a consideration of mine (any award). Just thought about TRf and thought, "Why don't I post anymore" and I thought "I know. I'm worried that I'll have to explain myself too much (in a mod way to the staff) if I go into subjects in an unrestricted, unfiltered way and I can't be bothered with all that". Then I remembered, "I'm not a mod anymore. If they don't like any of my raw, uncensored to-the-pointery, they can show me the door".

Although I'm sure they're not against that stuff and I'm not looking to get myself banned. Just being me.

Hey, weren't you one of those guys I used to argue with anyhow? :lol:

Yes. Iverson prematurely gets my Comeback of the Year award. I've missed him.
 
On a slightly unrelated topic, who was the genius that programmed the two (2!) test matches of this weekend the same day at the same time?
 
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