England XV vs Barbarians (02/06/2019)

[Scotty]

Exsctly what a baabaas game should be, entertaining focused on attack rather than defence and a chance to see some new faces at a higher level.

Curry and dombrandt were solid in defence and dombrandt running some great lines as well as also showing some good fitness which has been my criticism of his.

Mitchel has learnt well off reinach and showed great pace delivery and eye for an intercept, also good in open play. On for the future.

Marchant could easily be better than JJ with more experience.

Enjoyes that alot more than i thought i would pre kick off.

 

[BPM]

Positives:
Marchant
Mitchell
Dombrandt
Smith
Curry

Negatives:
Painter
White

Agreed. Although slightly harsh on Painter. Marler has schooled far more experienced props than a kid coming in off the back of his first season at senior level.

I thought most of the side did pretty well all things considered. Looking at the difference in experience, the team performed above expectation IMO.

Really pleasing to see the guys you mentioned looking so calm and composed.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't really see the hype surrounding Painter (not that there's a ton of it, but I don't see why he's already being credited as a future England THP). Him being dominated in the scrum can be forgiven; he's young and inexperienced, but the rest of his game is poor too. For a guy who's 6'4 and 130kg, he does nothing in the carry and his work rate is dire.

I see Heyes as the far more exciting prospect, as well as Street and Petch from the current 20s.

 

[FLOBALOB]

Entertaining appetiser for the game of the day. County championship final.
Nail-biting finish but Cornwall are county champions again beating Cheshire 14-12 in the 87th minute.
Kernow bys vyken

 

[BPM]

I don't really see the hype surrounding Painter (not that there's a ton of it, but I don't see why he's already being credited as a future England THP). Him being dominated in the scrum can be forgiven; he's young and inexperienced, but the rest of his game is poor too. For a guy who's 6'4 and 130kg, he does nothing in the carry and his work rate is dire.

I see Heyes as the far more exciting prospect, as well as Street and Petch from the current 20s.

That's fair. I agree on Heyes. I don't think I've ever seen Petch play, but Street looked good for the U20s.

There's not many 130kg props that do much around the pitch, so perhaps he needs to lose weight and improve his mobility/work rate.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That's fair. I agree on Heyes. I don't think I've ever seen Petch play, but Street looked good for the U20s.

There's not many 130kg props that do much around the pitch, so perhaps he needs to lose weight and improve his mobility/work rate.

Yes, 100%.

You only need to look at a picture of him to see the issue; even for a prop he's carrying far too much useless weight. He just doesn't look particularly strong either. You see most props and sure they've got some fat on them but you can still see from their builds that they've also got a ton of muscle on them. Painter just doesn't look like that; his arms, legs, shoulders and butt just have nothing to them.

Who knows though, plenty of young props balloon up through the U18-U20 years to make up for their lack of muscle and then progressively lose it once they stop having to compensate. Hopefully this is the case of Painter.

 

[Reiser99]

Just watched highlights. Pretty much agree with most of what's been said.

Be interesting to see if it changes EJ's thinking at all. One point about Dombrandt, he seems to have a very good awareness for the game and reading the opposition.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just watched highlights. Pretty much agree with most of what's been said.

Be interesting to see if it changes EJ's thinking at all. One point about Dombrandt, he seems to have a very good awareness for the game and reading the opposition.

Agreed. Much more to his game than just blasting carries.

Could he be a RWC bolter? If not he should be involved ASAP afterwards. Looks an 8 to me.

Curry, Curry and Dombrandt in a couple of years?

 

[BPM]

Dombrandt's feel for the game is what excites me more than his carrying. He runs great lines and makes good decisions on when to offload and when not to.

To Reiser's point, his reading of the game allows him to pick up loose passes (as he did yesterday for Williams' try) or make interceptions, which he did several times last season (for example he would have scored at Sale had he not wrongly been called back for offside).

Unfortunately, I think this World Cup is a year too soon. There are questions over his fitness and work rate that he doesn't have time to definitively answer IMO. I've seen a lot of him for Quins and we do set up to let him focus on carrying and do less ruck work which he might not get as much of with England. However, it's worth noting he went the full 80 yesterday and was fairly prominent in defence as well as attack.

I'd far sooner take him than Hughes or Shields, but I can't see it happening TBH.

 

[Nudger]

Dombrandt's feel for the game is what excites me more than his carrying. He runs great lines and makes good decisions on when to offload and when not to.

To Reiser's point, his reading of the game allows him to pick up loose passes (as he did yesterday for Williams' try) or make interceptions, which he did several times last season (for example he would have scored at Sale had he not wrongly been called back for offside).

Unfortunately, I think this World Cup is a year too soon. There are questions over his fitness and work rate that he doesn't have time to definitively answer IMO. I've seen a lot of him for Quins and we do set up to let him focus on carrying and do less ruck work which he might not get as much of with England. However, it's worth noting he went the full 80 yesterday and was fairly prominent in defence as well as attack.

I'd far sooner take him than Hughes or Shields, but I can't see it happening TBH.

I think robshaw goes before any of them

 

[BPM]

I think robshaw goes before any of them

I'm OK with that. I'd certainly prefer him to Hughes or Shields.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd prefer Shields to Robshaw. They're practically the same player, just Shields is mlre athletic and a better lineout option.

 

[Scotty]

Id like dombrandt in the 45 man squad, would get alot out of training with the england squad even if he doesnt get to japan. Fitness and training will help him no end. Then good pre season and he can step up next season.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yes, 100%.

You only need to look at a picture of him to see the issue; even for a prop he's carrying far too much useless weight. He just doesn't look particularly strong either. You see most props and sure they've got some fat on them but you can still see from their builds that they've also got a ton of muscle on them. Painter just doesn't look like that; his arms, legs, shoulders and butt just have nothing to them.

Who knows though, plenty of young props balloon up through the U18-U20 years to make up for their lack of muscle and then progressively lose it once they stop having to compensate. Hopefully this is the case of Painter.

I think this is an issue with the Saints S&C team as all of the forwards look small compared to every other team we play and the props especially look tiny. I really hope that changes for next season though, chicken/ rice and the gym for all the Saints forwards please.

 

[BPM]

I'd prefer Shields to Robshaw. They're practically the same player, just Shields is mlre athletic and a better lineout option.

That's a huge insult based upon the Shields I've seen this season.

He may be more athletic and a better lineout option, but he's still nowhere near the player Robshaw is IMO. Athleticism doesn't compensate for a lack of rugby brain.

 

[BPM]

Yes, 100%.

You only need to look at a picture of him to see the issue; even for a prop he's carrying far too much useless weight. He just doesn't look particularly strong either. You see most props and sure they've got some fat on them but you can still see from their builds that they've also got a ton of muscle on them. Painter just doesn't look like that; his arms, legs, shoulders and butt just have nothing to them.

Who knows though, plenty of young props balloon up through the U18-U20 years to make up for their lack of muscle and then progressively lose it once they stop having to compensate. Hopefully this is the case of Painter.

Very few of the bigger props are any good for anything other than scrummaging. I think it's virtually impossible to combine that size with mobility and the sheer effort of moving a body that heavy around the pitch is always going to impact work rate.

Much more than 125kg for the scrum compromises too much elsewhere IMO. Good technique often cancels out the weight advantage to at least some extent anyway.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Very few of the bigger props are any good for anything other than scrummaging. I think it's virtually impossible to combine that size with mobility and the sheer effort of moving a body that heavy around the pitch is always going to impact work rate.

Much more than 125kg for the scrum compromises too much elsewhere IMO. Good technique often cancels out the weight advantage to at least some extent anyway.

I think it can work. Williams weighs in at 132kg and while he's hardly Sinckler, he gets through plenty of work around the park. I agree with your point though, higher weight in the scrum doesn't make up for poor work in the loose. The major issue in Painter's case is that he isn't particularly destructive in the scrum either, despite his weight. Honestly, I also think 6'4 is too tall for a prop. While there are plenty of examples of good props who are tall (Moody is supposedly 6'4) I don't think you can fit the amount of bulk required of a prop onto a 6'4 frame without the player becoming too heavy. I much prefer more compact guys like Sinckler and Afoa who can be the build required of a prop, yet still light enough to be real weapons in the loose. It's also harder for looseheads to get under shorter THPs. I don't see any benefit to tall props other than added mass.

 

[BPM]

100% agree on all of the above.

There are obviously exceptions, but on the whole, I'd prefer my props to be built more like Sinckler and Afoa.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

100% agree on all of the above.

There are obviously exceptions, but on the whole, I'd prefer my props to be built more like Sinckler and Afoa.

Agreed too. I was just thinking of exceptions. Sheridan was one. I also googled Carl Hayman and found this. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ison-sentence-for-domestic-violence-in-france Not such a big man after all.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's a huge insult based upon the Shields I've seen this season.

He may be more athletic and a better lineout option, but he's still nowhere near the player Robshaw is IMO. Athleticism doesn't compensate for a lack of rugby brain.

Nor does a Rugby Brain matter if you're a physical non-entity.