England XV vs Barbarians (02/06/2019)

[BPM]

I personally haven't seen anything outstanding from Shields or Robshaw to warrant going to the World Cup. Really hope neither come and we take international players who actually offer a pint of difference like underhill or Simmonds etc.

So if we're talking Robshaw vs. Shields ... whatever you may think of Robshaw, he's had a very good season which Shields has not.

Simmonds has been injured for months and will struggle to make the training squad.

Barring injury, Underhill is already on the plane.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

For me it's Wilson, Curry, Vunipola and Underhill on the plane. Honestly, I'd like to take Dombrandt as the 5th guy and probably who I'd put in the 20 shirt, but it's looking unlikely that he'll be in the 45-man squad. So after that it'll probably be whoever impresses most out of Shields, Robshaw, Hughes and Simmonds in training and the warm-up matches. Personally I'm hoping that Simmonds comes good as he offers something that the other options don't; the others just seem like worse versions of players we're already taking. I think it's also worth noting that as Mercer wasn't involved in the Barbarians game, he's probably in 45-man. While Eddie likely won't select him, I'd take him over Shields, Robshaw and Hughes for the same reason as Simmonds, and if Simmonds isn't back to his old self, I'd also be taking Mercer over him.

 

[BPM]

I think there is realistically one back row spot up for grabs between Robshaw, Shields, Hughes, Mercer, Simmonds and possibly Dombrandt.

The only variable I can foresee is that Eddie only takes 3 locks, leaving Launchbury at home taking Hughes or Shields as a back row player that can cover lock at a push. I don't like it, but I can see it happening.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think there is realistically one back row spot up for grabs between Robshaw, Shields, Hughes, Mercer, Simmonds and possibly Dombrandt.

The only variable I can foresee is that Eddie only takes 3 locks, leaving Launchbury at home taking Hughes or Shields as a back row player that can cover lock at a push. I don't like it, but I can see it happening.

Could he maybe see Dombrandt in the row? Same height as both Shields and Hughes and defo got the power?

 

[BPM]

He has the power and is tall enough but he's not a great jumper.

In Joe Marler's interview post-game, he was asked about Dombrandt and he mentioned him being a nightmare to lift and this being something Quins want to work on.

 

[Scotty]

I think there is realistically one back row spot up for grabs between Robshaw, Shields, Hughes, Mercer, Simmonds and possibly Dombrandt.

The only variable I can foresee is that Eddie only takes 3 locks, leaving Launchbury at home taking Hughes or Shields as a back row player that can cover lock at a push. I don't like it, but I can see it happening.

He will take 4 locks with itoje as 6 cover rather than the other way round.

Hughes has found some form tbh as wasps use him the right way and he can be a good player (never will be a smart one though, pretty sure he learnt from hask). And EJ likes a back battering ram. So he will go.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hughes has never translated his club form to international level tbh

 

[Scotty]

Hughes has never translated his club form to international level tbh

No he hasnt unfortunatly but he is a player who needs to be used right or not at all. Simmonds i think should deffinstly go, in the semi final he showed he still has that trademark acceleration but didnt have the same impact in the final. Deffinatly wider squad.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Back row is so difficult.

If you take Binny Curry and Wilson as guaranteed then that presumably leaves 2 spaces.

Binny's a one off. Hughes is our nearest proxy, but he's not in the same league and I don't really see the point of a Binny lite in the squad especially as he's not really great in any other positions.

Wilson's a different player to Binny but can cover 8 well. Simmonds can cover 8 from the bench / in an emergency too. He can also cover both flanking spots as can Underhill who gets the final seat on the plane. Itoje can also cover 6 if needs be.

But the odds of Underhill and Binny being simultaneously fit......

 

[Scotty]

Back row is so difficult.

If you take Binny Curry and Wilson as guaranteed then that presumably leaves 2 spaces.

Binny's a one off. Hughes is our nearest proxy, but he's not in the same league and I don't really see the point of a Binny lite in the squad especially as he's not really great in any other positions.

Wilson's a different player to Binny but can cover 8 well. Simmonds can cover 8 from the bench / in an emergency too. He can also cover both flanking spots as can Underhill who gets the final seat on the plane. Itoje can also cover 6 if needs be.

But the odds of Underhill and Binny being simultaneously fit......

I agree with that 100% tbh, but hughes has found form and is an EJ favourite.

Simmonds is a chiefs player so can play anywhere in the back row and is a perfect 20 shire player but Underhill is ahead of him which i cant rwally complain about.

Main thing is we know our 23 give or take. I just hope Mako is fit.

Been thinking about Dombrandt and i dont think he should go, i know younger players than him have played for england but starting at the world cup could be too much for a first cap. I think he can handle internation and could possibly be the future but not the place to start.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Been thinking about Dombrandt and i dont think he should go, i know younger players than him have played for england but starting at the world cup could be too much for a first cap. I think he can handle internation and could possibly be the future but not the place to start.

Agreed, wouldn't be a great place to start. It's not his age - he's 22, but that he's only got something like 15 Quins games under his belt. But I want to see him involved in the 6N.

 

[Which Tyler]

Agreed on Dombrandt - I'm always really wary of capping players in their first real season - too many suffer from second season syndrome to take the risk, which goes double in the pressure cauldron of a RWC.
If he's still in form come February, then bring him into the 6N squad; expecting him to train but not play, and get him some caps in the summer.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agreed on Dombrandt - I'm always really wary of capping players in their first real season - too many suffer from second season syndrome to take the risk, which goes double in the pressure cauldron of a RWC.
If he's still in form come February, then bring him into the 6N squad; expecting him to train but not play, and get him some caps in the summer.

If he's still in form, I'd have him straight on the bench.

(a) because I think he'd be the best option and

(b) I'm looking at no8 succession planning. I've said on here a thousand times that Binny's too one dimensional. Lazy over simplification admittedly, but more than a grain of truth. Early days for sure, but Dombrandt just seems to have an instinctive rugby brain - you can't buy that or train it in the gym and its a great attribute for an 8. Not to mention that we should be planning anyway because of Binny's injury record.

 

[Scotty]

Is it time to move this to a RWC England thread?