England XV vs Barbarians (02/06/2019)

[TRF_Olyy]

England XV vs Barbarians
Twickenham Stadium
June 2nd, 15:30​

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Barbarians squad
Forwards
Joe Marler (Harlequins & England)
Pierre Schoeman (Edinburgh)
John Afoa (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)
Finlay Bealham (Connacht & Ireland)
David Heffernan (Connacht & Ireland)
Richard Hibbard (Dragons & Wales)
James Horwill (Harlequins & Australia)
Chris Vui (Bristol Bears & Samoa)
Steven Luatua (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)
Facundo Isa (Toulon & Argentina)
Liam Messam (Toulon & New Zealand)
Viliame Mata (Edinburgh & Fiji)
Francois Louw (Bath & South Africa)

Backs
Rhys Webb (Toulon & Wales)
Rhodri Williams (Dragons & Wales)
Colin Slade (Pau & New Zealand)
Brock James (Bordeaux Begles)
Mark Atkinson (Gloucester)
Malakai Fekitoa (Toulon & New Zealand)
Filipo Nakosi (Toulon)
Taqele Naiyaravoro (Northampton Saints & Australia)
Niyi Adeolokun (Connacht & Ireland)
Charles Piutau (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Happy to see Marchant, Dobmdrandt and Smith all included

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England XV squad

Forwards
Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
Will Spencer (Leicester Tigers)
Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
Tommy Taylor (Wasps)


Backs
Josh Bassett (Wasps)
Simon Hammersley (Newcastle Falcons)
Ben Loader (London Irish)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
Piers O'Conor (Bristol Bears)
Callum Sheedy (Bristol Bears)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
Johnny Williams (Newcastle Falcons)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Not a massively inspiring selection, but I guess with the limitations we couldn't have hoped for much better.
Expecting the 23 to look something like:
1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Painter
4. Stooke
5. Spencer
6. Ellis
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. White
10. Smith
11. Bassett
12. Williams
13. Marchant
14. Loader
15. Hammersley

16. Taylor
17. Harrison
18. Hill
19. Beaumont
20. Harrison
21. Mitchell
22. Sheedy
23. O'Conor

Good to see some really young guns like Painter, White and Smith already gaining recognition but there are a lot of calls that don't make a ton of sense, namely guys like Ellis, Bassett and Hammersley. Sure, they're all good enough players but just uninspiring. At 24, 27 and 26 respectively, they're not old but they're not going to get any higher than their current ceilings. Would've far rather seen guys like Hill, Ibitoye and Malins included; guys who could come to be in the reckoning for 1st XV honours in the not too distant future.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Good to see some really young guns like Painter, White and Smith already gaining recognition but there are a lot of calls that don't make a ton of sense, namely guys like Ellis, Bassett and Hammersley. Sure, they're all good enough players but just uninspiring. At 24, 27 and 26 respectively, they're not old but they're not going to get any higher than their current ceilings. Would've far rather seen guys like Hill, Ibitoye and Malins included; guys who could come to be in the reckoning for 1st XV honours in the not too distant future.

Disagree with Ellis, I think he has a fair bit of potential. I don't think he will be a first choice England starter but I don't think it would be much of a stretch to see him as a reasonable backup if he develops a bit more. He's pretty decent carrying.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Disagree with Ellis, I think he has a fair bit of potential. I don't think he will be a first choice England starter but I don't think it would be much of a stretch to see him as a reasonable backup if he develops a bit more. He's pretty decent carrying.

I like Ellis a lot but I just can't see him ever getting capped. Of the older generation, Wilson, Shields, Robshaw, Armand and Rhodes are all ahead of him by some distance and of the younger players I'd have thought that Underhill, Dombrandt and Mercer are ahead of him in the pecking order, while also being younger. You add Itoje, Lawes, Clifford, Willis, the possibility of playing a Curry at 6 and Hill who should overtake him soon enough, and I just can't see Ellis ever getting called upon.

As I said, I like Ellis, but I can't see him ever being an international.

 

[BPM]

Yeah. I tend to agree. Ellis is a good player, but probably not likely to break in to the full squad.

We have a very impressive group of young flankers and I'm not sure Ellis is good enough to hold off a challenge from Hill, Willis, Dombrandt etc.

Loader is clearly very highly rated within the England set-up so it'll be interesting to see how he does back in the Premiership with London Irish (it might be a bit unfair judging him against this Barbarians side).

Like Toby, I would have liked to see Malins.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Malins is the one that really confuses me; if England have more of an eye towards winning the game rather than looking at it as an opportunity to develop potential, then I understand picking Hammersley over him at 15, but selecting Sheedy over him at 10 really doesn't make any sense.

The only thing I can think of is that Saracens wouldn't release him, but that'd be an odd call by them seeing as he has no chance of making their 23.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Malins will be training with Saracens all week though.
Even if he isn't in the 23 that 23 will need to be playing against another team.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Malins is the one that really confuses me; if England have more of an eye towards winning the game rather than looking at it as an opportunity to develop potential, then I understand picking Hammersley over him at 15, but selecting Sheedy over him at 10 really doesn't make any sense.

The only thing I can think of is that Saracens wouldn't release him, but that'd be an odd call by them seeing as he has no chance of making their 23.

Usually you'd be right, but with Barritt injured, Tompkins will start, meaning the 22 shirt is up for grabs. Assuming Strettle keeps #23, I'd expect Malins/Gallagher to be vying for 22.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Usually you'd be right, but with Barritt injured, Tompkins will start, meaning the 22 shirt is up for grabs. Assuming Strettle keeps #23, I'd expect Malins/Gallagher to be vying for 22.

Surely whoever takes the shirt will be a centre. There'd be no point in putting Gallagher in there; Strettle covers wing and both Williams and Maitland can go to FB. Similarly with Malins, 10 and 15 are both well covered by Goode, Lozowski and the aforementioned 15 options. The only centre cover you'd have would be moving Faz to 12, but I can't see Sarries wanting to do that. I'd expect Dominic Morris to come in; he's been impressive when he's played.

 

[Which Tyler]

Don't forget travelling reserves though, and if someone's carrying a beagle, you wouldn't want to lose the next in line just-in-case.
There are plenty of good reasons for Sarries to not release him

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Even calling it an England XV is pushing it. Don't think the backs boast a single cap between them.

Up front marginally better, but that Baa Baas pack is just going to be way too streetwise.

Some points of interest in seeing how Hill, Curry B and Dombrandt go, but really its all a bit meh. Scratch side against scratch side which might make it superficially entertaining, but isn't really the point of the Baa Baas, in as much as they still have a point.

How many tickets have been sold?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

15 Simon Hammersley (Newcastle Falcons)
14 Piers O'Conor (Bristol Bears)
13 Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
12 Johnny Williams (Newcastle Falcons)
11 Josh Bassett (Wasps)
10 Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
9 Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)

1 Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
2 Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
3 Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
4 Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
5 Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks) captain
6 Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
7 Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
8 Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)

Finishers

16 Tommy Taylor (Wasps, 1 cap)
17 Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
19 Will Spencer (Leicester Tigers)
20 Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)
21 Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
22 Callum Sheedy (Bristol Bears)
23 Ben Loader (London Irish)



We'll likely get a kicking but there's a lot of exciting players there

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If Nowell's out I guess his replacement would be chosen from this squad? Could really give some of the backs (or Curry) something to play for.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Biased but Solomona is better than all the wingers in this squad. In the form of his life atm and his defence has improved beyond recognition

If Watson is fit and ready he'll just take Nowell's spot from the 6N back three players, I imagine?

Im too lazy to try and work out how many back three players we're gonna take

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Biased but Solomona is better than all the wingers in this squad.

If Watson is fit and ready he'll just take Nowell's spot from the 6N back three players, I imagine?

Im too lazy to try and work out how many back three players we're gonna take

If Solomona isn't in this squad then I guess he's already in the training squad which is what I meant, not the RWC squad.

I'm guessing in terms of the 31 then Ashton will come in for Nowell, making it May, Watson, Daly, Cokonasiga and Ashton.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd be surprised if Nowell was out.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Brown maybe?

According to care, Wilko told brown (not sure why he would know) that he was still Eddie's preferred 15 but was needing to try out other options.

Dunno how much I believe that but hope it's true