England World Cup Squad

[Lé Ddanno]

Does that mean we're getting to the QFs? Result!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

‘I made a mistake’: Owen Farrell holds hands up over England World Cup ban

The England captain accepted his ban for a tackle on Wales’ Taine Basham and brushed off claims made by Danny Cipriani in new book

www.theguardian.com

How long has that taken?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He accepted responsibility in the first hearing, so like...three days?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Does that mean we're getting to the QFs? Result!

Exactly.... Not getting past the quarters is not high on my worry list right now. First up, are we capable of beating Japan or Samoa and having a shot at getting out of our pool.
It's funny how a group that 4 years ago would have felt like a cakewalk now looks like a group of death.
We're not alone in that mind - Wales had better be careful too given their group.
I'm not a betting man but a bet that one of England or Wales go out at the group stage is a good one.

 

[McTallshort]

A wasted ( no pun intended ) talent

England answer to Gavin Hensen

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Exactly.... Not getting past the quarters is not high on my worry list right now. First up, are we capable of beating Japan or Samoa and having a shot at getting out of our pool.
It's funny how a group that 4 years ago would have felt like a cakewalk now looks like a group of death.
We're not alone in that mind - Wales had better be careful too given their group.
I'm not a betting man but a bet that one of England or Wales go out at the group stage is a good one.

Japan don't worry me anywhere near as much as Samoa. I still think we can have an edge in the forwards against Nippon and can shut them down, especially if we have Genge, Itoje, Curry and one or both of Willis and Ludlam fired up*

Samoa will Fiji us quite happily, and without home advantage they are a real danger. I don't see us beating Argentina without a stupid card so we'll go into that game with desperation while Samoa will probably target it and field their strongest side.

Samoa will also take Japan in their current state quite easily.

This is such a weird rugby timeline.

*yeah. Big if. And a lot depends on them all caring (or being allowed to care) about the breakdown again

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ludlam blathering on about how being underdogs is a great position as it gives them freedom to express themselves. Must be hugely embarrassed coming out with that kind of tripe.

Also bought in 2 Premiership youth players "to make up the numbers" in training - one each from Bath and Falcons.

Good article about the 2019 final in the Times. Basically had over focused on the ABs for years effectively making it our final - if we can beat the ABs we"ll beat anyone kind of mentality. Hansen poked his head into our changing room afterwards to congratulate us, but also saying "make sure that's not your final" - maybe he'd read the room. Either way, players consequently flat, as you often are after a massive high, which Jones then compounded by treating it as a normal "train as you want to play" week (why didn't players kick back as they had in 03?). In contrast the Boks were literally putting their feet up studying a lot on laptops, but conserving energy. So beaten both mentally and physically. Jones apparently quite aggressive to Garces in pre match briefing and of course he's already said he made selection mistakes. Probably can't blame Jones (totally) for the bus being late but Kolisi saying Farrell didn't know his arse from his elbow at the coin toss. Whole thing sounds like a case study in exactly how not to do it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Japan don't worry me anywhere near as much as Samoa. I still think we can have an edge in the forwards against Nippon and can shut them down, especially if we have Genge, Itoje, Curry and one or both of Willis and Ludlam fired up*

Samoa will Fiji us quite happily, and without home advantage they are a real danger. I don't see us beating Argentina without a stupid card so we'll go into that game with desperation while Samoa will probably target it and field their strongest side.

Samoa will also take Japan in their current state quite easily.

This is such a weird rugby timeline.

*yeah. Big if. And a lot depends on them all caring (or being allowed to care) about the breakdown again

Oh totally, 100% that Samoa are a bigger threat, given Japan's form. But then, Japan are first which is good for us potentially, take care of that and you potentially set up a 'knock out' game against Samoa in the final pool game (if memory serves)

And since you mention some key players for us, it's only fair to point out that there is a world in which we click and are capable of beating Argentina. A few years ago I would have killed for a back row including both curry and Willis

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Oh totally, 100% that Samoa are a bigger threat, given Japan's form. But then, Japan are first which is good for us potentially, take care of that and you potentially set up a 'knock out' game against Samoa in the final pool game (if memory serves)

And since you mention some key players for us, it's only fair to point out that there is a world in which we click and are capable of beating Argentina. A few years ago I would have killed for a back row including both curry and Willis

Alternatively, Arg, & Japan before Samoa, is 2 additional red cards to pick up before what maybe the pool 2nd place decider…… just sayin'

 

[Booboobang]

I'll accept your feedback on my 3rd point. Organisations that depend on cohesion (such as the military) generally take a dim view of immorality and consider it corrosive to morale.
You didn't address my other points, so it's reasonable to assume that you agree with them? If so, it still seems that Cipriani's version of the truth may vary with those of his teammates….

Edited because I saw a spelling mistake.

What milatary lads do you know? The single squadies I know are the biggest whores I know when they are back. Loveable, very fun on a night out or at the pub, but the very definition of the word lad and going with anything with a pulse.

It is impossible to tell, his version will always be tinted in his lense, thats human nature, just as the response from a senior group of players will be tinted to mean they maintain power. Its a he said she said, Danny has never helped himself, but that hardly feels like a great enviroment for any non core player or any player with a strong personality to come into.

Who knows though, might just all be to sell the book (it worked) an understanding of that camp that led ot a group stage exit despite having what would fo on to be two of the best coaches in europe is facinating.

 

[Booboobang]

Reflecting on the bit of clickbait from Cipriani;

* He slates Lancaster, Farrell snr & Catt. All have gone on to coach successful & happy teams.
* There seems to be no acknowledgment that he may have played a part in his non-selection. This appears (at least to me) as a little one eyed.
*His personal life seems less than ideal at the same time. Coaches worry about team chemistry and cohesion. Having someone who rides anything with a pulse isn't conducive to a happy camp, irrespective of their level of skill.

1. Is that correlative or causative? Nothing he said is out of place with what we know about each of the coaches or the reports at the time. Lancaster is a known tactician but never been said to be a leader of men and was a hit at leinster when he wasnt the top boss, will be interesting to see how he goes being back in the top seat. Faz snr is a massie personality and natural leader and catt known as outspoken, and as for them not having issues with ireland, if anything teaches you how to improve your man management surely its getting utterly embarrased at a home world cup and then fired with potential man management issues pre tourney. Impossible to know though I guess. Personally I dont think Faz and lancaster become the coaches they have become without the reality check that was the failure of that world cup, nothing teaches lessons better than failure.
2. I mean, we saw that he improved the team in his one shot, he was clearly the best player on the pitch in that warmup after coming on if I remember correctly, and was in very hot domestic form. Can understand why he wouldnt take acountability in that regard, he also says he acepted it, he did everything he could etc, just took exception to what he deems unfair treatment, which I mean thats all there is to it thats a personal belief wether we agree or not. As for Catt, well Catt was gone a couple of months later so not like that confrontation actually led to anything long term in terms of the failure of his inernational career will be interested to see if that is covered in the book tbf.
3. Disagree strongly on the last, and like someone said after its very much a reflection of a personal opinion, if you played rugby at uni or somethign of the like I gaurentee you that stuff has no impact on camp happines since that stuff got feral at times. Clash of personalities could yes, but something was very of with that camp regardless of cips, it isnt like they played well or looked at all like a team when he left either. I would argue parachuting and rushing a league player before he is there on merit is probably a bigger killer for morale and camp as it breaks the idea of meritocracy sport is built on.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Cips is an interesting one.

His personal life was irrelevant unless or until it impacted his rugby. Between him and the people involved - no-one else.

In the first extract he refers to the running and running of the 2015 build up - we know how that impacted some of the front 5 forwards. You could sense his frustration that the physical was wrongly targeted and getting all the time at the expense of skills. Not an unreasonable argument, but against the grain.

Maybe the architect of his own downfall but still also think he wasn't mostly managed well.

If you can find it, the extract where he talks about Shaun Edwards is really interesting. Talks about his man management in glowing terms. Just reinforces the view that he was one that got away.

 

[Which Tyler]

Cips is an interesting one.

His personal life was irrelevant unless or until it impacted his rugby. Between him and the people involved - no-one else.

First of all - loving the new name OH.
Second, on Cips, and his sex life - weren't there rumours (I've no idea if true) that he'd sh***ed a team-mates Mrs? That's going to upset any team dynamic, even if they're all ok with chasing tail.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

His personal life was irrelevant unless or until it impacted his rugby. Between him and the people involved - no-one else.

Idk, there's always the role model line, and the potential that whilst it may not impact his rugby, it may impact the team's.

If stories about him are potentially going to be a distraction, or he just doesnt gel with the team, that's reason enough to leave (especially) a 10 out.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Farrell and cips didn't gel surely Farrell should have got the boot as back then he was a poor international FH.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Idk, there's always the role model line, and the potential that whilst it may not impact his rugby, it may impact the team's.

If stories about him are potentially going to be a distraction, or he just doesnt gel with the team, that's reason enough to leave (especially) a 10 out.

Role model is a load of nonsense really provided behaviour's on the right side of the law.

Totally agreed about impacting the team as well as individual.

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

1. Is that correlative or causative? Nothing he said is out of place with what we know about each of the coaches or the reports at the time. Lancaster is a known tactician but never been said to be a leader of men and was a hit at leinster when he wasnt the top boss, will be interesting to see how he goes being back in the top seat. Faz snr is a massie personality and natural leader and catt known as outspoken, and as for them not having issues with ireland, if anything teaches you how to improve your man management surely its getting utterly embarrased at a home world cup and then fired with potential man management issues pre tourney. Impossible to know though I guess. Personally I dont think Faz and lancaster become the coaches they have become without the reality check that was the failure of that world cup, nothing teaches lessons better than failure.
2. I mean, we saw that he improved the team in his one shot, he was clearly the best player on the pitch in that warmup after coming on if I remember correctly, and was in very hot domestic form. Can understand why he wouldnt take acountability in that regard, he also says he acepted it, he did everything he could etc, just took exception to what he deems unfair treatment, which I mean thats all there is to it thats a personal belief wether we agree or not. As for Catt, well Catt was gone a couple of months later so not like that confrontation actually led to anything long term in terms of the failure of his inernational career will be interested to see if that is covered in the book tbf.
3. Disagree strongly on the last, and like someone said after its very much a reflection of a personal opinion, if you played rugby at uni or somethign of the like I gaurentee you that stuff has no impact on camp happines since that stuff got feral at times. Clash of personalities could yes, but something was very of with that camp regardless of cips, it isnt like they played well or looked at all like a team when he left either. I would argue parachuting and rushing a league player before he is there on merit is probably a bigger killer for morale and camp as it breaks the idea of meritocracy sport is built on.

1. Your answer is speculative and in isolation. Everything I have read about Lancaster and Faz snr by former players has been generally positive, especially relative to other England managers/coaches.
2. Cips' club career also seems to reflect a lot of coaches deciding that the "juice isn't worth the squeeze".
3. The services' are probably the only employer in modern UK where adultery is a dismissal offence. Yes, squaddies ride anything with a pulse, but ******** on your own doorstep ( scoring someone's wife, or bringing the local bike back to the billet) is a major no-no. Please see the uproar about 3 Para about 12 months ago. BTW I did 7 years and left the army as a captain.

 

[Saintjay]

1. Your answer is speculative and in isolation. Everything I have read about Lancaster and Faz snr by former players has been generally positive, especially relative to other England managers/coaches.
2. Cips' club career also seems to reflect a lot of coaches deciding that the "juice isn't worth the squeeze".
3. The services' are probably the only employer in modern UK where adultery is a dismissal offence. Yes, squaddies ride anything with a pulse, but ******** on your own doorstep ( scoring someone's wife, or bringing the local bike back to the billet) is a major no-no. Please see the uproar about 3 Para about 12 months ago. BTW I did 7 years and left the army as a captain.

There's big difference between being a Captain in a mess tin repair unit and a fighting unit though.

All jokes aside i did 8 years and life would have been hell for anyone going near someones wife or girlfriend. Never saw it happen as it wasn't worth the grief, I'm sure it did but your average young soldier either went clubbing or to the more notorious parts of town. (3 years spent near Hannover, Hamburg)

Most rugby clubs I've known it would have been the same. A major case of don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Booboobang]

1. Your answer is speculative and in isolation. Everything I have read about Lancaster and Faz snr by former players has been generally positive, especially relative to other England managers/coaches.
2. Cips' club career also seems to reflect a lot of coaches deciding that the "juice isn't worth the squeeze".
3. The services' are probably the only employer in modern UK where adultery is a dismissal offence. Yes, squaddies ride anything with a pulse, but ******** on your own doorstep ( scoring someone's wife, or bringing the local bike back to the billet) is a major no-no. Please see the uproar about 3 Para about 12 months ago. BTW I did 7 years and left the army as a captain.

1. It really isnt speculation, and nothing I said was in contention to them being good coaches, simply a description of how they have been described as coaches. As for improving them, again, hardly a speculation when they lost in the group stages of a home world cup and then went on to real sucess. So I think if it is speculation it is fair sepculation.
2. Not worth the squeeze yet continualy get jobs. Amazing logic. His reputation is hardly unknown.
3. You think people in the army dont commit adultery? Amazing. I have witnessed first hand evidence of the contrary. Rules might be the rules, but they are just human when they arent on tour. There is no evidence Cips every brought his personal life to work, no evidence he went with teamates wifes, simply that he put it about, wich is extremely common in male dominant enviroments and team sports and likely wasnt the only team member doing it. This is simply you not liking the man and behaviour and trying to draw invisible lines.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Who cares.

Can we get back to moaning about SBs England and the RFU please.