England World Cup Squad

[Saintjay]

Who cares.

Can we get back to moaning about SBs England and the RFU please.

Misery loves company.

 

[Zed]

First of all - loving the new name OH.
Second, on Cips, and his sex life - weren't there rumours (I've no idea if true) that he'd sh***ed a team-mates Mrs? That's going to upset any team dynamic, even if they're all ok with chasing tail.

We probably all know someone like Cipriani, shagging anything and everything, no fucks given whether it's his mates mrs or not. I've had mates throw away lifelong friendships just for a 20min roll in the hay with their best friends wife. There's literally 1000s of women out there and you choose her. There's probably some form of personality disorder, NPD going on. Anyway back to rugby!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We probably all know someone like Cipriani, shagging anything and everything, no fucks given whether it's his mates mrs or not. I've had mates throw away lifelong friendships just for a 20min roll in the hay with their best friends wife. There's literally 1000s of women out there and you choose her. There's probably some form of personality disorder, NPD going on. Anyway back to rugby!

Just curious what you would do with a woman for the other 18m?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

First of all - loving the new name OH.

Inspired by you, QC!

Montpelier boss Saint Andre saying what we all suspected - that Mercer did come home with the aim of playing in the RWC and is dumbfounded by his non selection. As are we all, Philippe.

PSA scored the best try I ever saw live…and helps explain why I've gone for France as my second / first team.

 

[Saintjay]

Not normally a fan of Guscott but he was telling the rugby paper that Mercer was dropped because he questioned how he was being asked to play and the style of play.

Guscott was very critical of Englands play by numbers. Plus the alleged mafia of Farrell, Youngs, Ford, Cole. Even i noticed on the O2 inside line where ever Farrell was Ben Youngs was with not far behind. I'm sure they are good mates and all, but it could explain Youngs continued and at times baffling selection.

He also made a point in stressing if you can get to the bottom of Itoje's complete loss of form. It'll explain why it's the same across the squad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not normally a fan of Guscott but he was telling the rugby paper that Mercer was dropped because he questioned how he was being asked to play and the style of play.

We memed that being the reason, but if that's true then that's insane

#BorthwickOut

 

[Which Tyler]

Good article by Flatman

David Flatman: 'Give the laptops a rest and let the boys play.'

England may have to deploy some new tactics if they don't have the right players to execute a rigid gameplan

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Reiser99]

We all knew it was too early for Borthwick. Looks now more like too bug a job for Borthwick completely. Further he is literally making the exact same mistakes as Jones (not too surprising) but is less experienced and so is getting even less out of the players.

 

[Booboobang]

Good article by Flatman

David Flatman: 'Give the laptops a rest and let the boys play.'

England may have to deploy some new tactics if they don't have the right players to execute a rigid gameplan

www.rugbypass.com

You see this is an odd one for me, I agree completly on the content, just not that its a 'laptop' or data issue. Do you hoenstly think ireland, france and ireland dont use data? They do, they just use it properly, they dont look at a stat like kick number and think thats a goal, that is why we win, simply that it is a tool to get there and use it in context. France for example, use kicking to essentially spread the opponent to disorganise their defense and creat a lot of disorganisation and break down of structure. But you dont get that from just looking at the numbers. It is up to you as a coach to take data and your players strengths and make a general structure for them to thrive. For example, I highly doubt anyone in data would tell jason robinson to not run it back, they would see the data on the AVERAGE FB being a net negative in that context, however they would also see his personal data being excelent at it and see it as a strength the team can exploit when teh other team will be kicking it more to you. Communication, lack of understanding of what data can actually tell you and hard headedness seems the issue to me.

I also disagree on the premise that short term means this brand of rugby was the most sensible. I would argue the opposite actually, if you want the least issues you should be running the style the players run at their clubs for the most part. Rather than using systems these players are used to (outside tigers) steve has essentially tried to get them to play the complete opposite.

 

[Booboobang]

We all knew it was too early for Borthwick. Looks now more like too bug a job for Borthwick completely. Further he is literally making the exact same mistakes as Jones (not too surprising) but is less experienced and so is getting even less out of the players.

That is the worrying thing. The job was to early for lancaster for example, but you could see the potential and the overhaul and reformation that happened after a period where english rugby was never out of the headlines for player behaviour, and at the beggining anyway, we saw improvement. Did we complain about some selections etc? Obviously we are on a forum and thus obviously way to invested in rugby. But there was at least logic and and understanding of what the plan was.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Misery loves company.

Well the misery company has their captain.

 

[Zed]

Communication, lack of understanding of what data can actually tell you and hard headedness seems the issue to me.

Hard headedness as in Borthwick not willing to adapt, change his gameplan?

 

[Saintjay]

No so sure, it's not like the RFU will be singing your getting sacked in the morning. Before the tournament even starts.

 

[Reiser99]

No so sure, it's not like the RFU will be singing your getting sacked in the morning. Before the tournament even starts.
View attachment 17587

Tbh it's going to be less about results and more about finances. The RFU paid too much to sack Jones and get Borthwick and sacking him would cost more. However, RFU needs to sell out Twickenham to survive and if fans keep getting put off by poor, boring rugby and they can't sell out such as against Fiji, then that might force their hand. Tbh the RFU has really shot themselves in the foot with their decision to hire Borthwick and now seem to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[SG59_]

No so sure, it's not like the RFU will be singing your getting sacked in the morning. Before the tournament even starts.
View attachment 17587

The timing to sign him was wrong and they knew it. Getting rid of him now would just confirm that. Best for them to just wait the storm out and see how he does for a while.

Even if they move him on after the world Cup, it won't change much. It's going to take a long time to re-build and the club game needs fixing.

 

[Booboobang]

Hard headedness as in Borthwick not willing to adapt, change his gameplan?

Yeah, exactly that. When using data you should always be adapting, adapting to what it says about your players etc. Borthwick has done the opposite, he has tried to force players who play loose attacking rugby with smaller mobile forwards into an old school bullball type tactic. I dont have aceess to the data they do, but just watching the premiership it is pretty obvious how these players should be set up.

 

[Booboobang]

The timing to sign him was wrong and they knew it. Getting rid of him now would just confirm that. Best for them to just wait the storm out and see how he does for a while.

Nothing will happen, if they go out in the groups here sweeney is more likely to fall than borthwick tbh. I think Borthwick is safe for at least another year just due to finances alone.

Dangerous game though, if it doesnt get better then economic realities of having people not interested in rugby just get mroe real. But the RFU has never been about long term thinking, they literally gutted our age grade system leading to a lack of quality and prepared players coming through, that will impact for years. Only recently getting their act together.

Sweeney needs to be gone, he takes a big fat paycheque when he has screwed the domestic game, screwed our development programme by cutting funds and hiring dean ryan and then ballsed this up completly.

 

[SG59_]

Sadly, he'll fall upwards too. Those types always do.

I'm honestly not convinced the game will get better now as I've seen this before. It might, but it's going to take a lot of work and long term thinking and less money at the top. The other options are it staying as it is for a while and then it just slowly declines with little notice.

 

[Reiser99]

The timing to sign him was wrong and they knew it. Getting rid of him now would just confirm that. Best for them to just wait the storm out and see how he does for a while.

Even if they move him on after the world Cup, it won't change much. It's going to take a long time to re-build and the club game needs fixing.

If there was a 10 year plan publish tomorrow or even after the world cup on how to fix English rugby that was credible, then I'd be happy to wait it out for results. It's not ideal, but at least I would know that there is a plan. However, the RFU won't even publicly acknowledge there is a wide-spread problem across the game. It's almost like they see each problem as separate from each other and are trying to fix each one if a different way. I've said it before, if the English game continues on this path it will be dead in 10 years or close to it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Tbh it's going to be less about results and more about finances. The RFU paid too much to sack Jones and get Borthwick and sacking him would cost more. However, RFU needs to sell out Twickenham to survive and if fans keep getting put off by poor, boring rugby and they can't sell out such as against Fiji, then that might force their hand. Tbh the RFU has really shot themselves in the foot with their decision to hire Borthwick and now seem to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.

TBF there were train strikes on the Fiji day, which likely would have had an impact on attendance.