England World Cup Squad

[higgik]

I like that 2nd row, otherwise the guy's in cloud cuckoo land.

Why, because it wont hapoen or because the team would not work?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why, because it wont hapoen or because the team would not work?

Well SB's said that the last players dropped would be the first called up so that's Willis not Mercer.

The Steward at 12 thing's been done to death here. Unless / until he plays there for his club and makes a success of it it's a non-issue.

And Evans won't be bought in. Quins would have released him for a permanent role but said months ago that another interim role was a non starter. This Felix Jones guy is coming in post RWC to an unspecified, possibly attack type, role post RWC.

 

[higgik]

Well SB's said that the last players dropped would be the first called up so that's Willis not Mercer.

The Steward at 12 thing's been done to death here. Unless / until he plays there for his club and makes a success of it it's a non-issue.

And Evans won't be bought in. Quins would have released him for a permanent role but said months ago that another interim role was a non starter. This Felix Jones guy is coming in post RWC to an unspecified, possibly attack type, role post RWC.

So it is because SB wont do it.
But what about post RWC?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This Felix Jones guy is coming in post RWC to an unspecified, possibly attack type, role post RWC.

Going to be interesting to see what his role actually is with England - he was assistant attack/backs coach at Munster but works in the defence with South Africa/has done for the last 4years (plus also essentially acting as a scout, keeping an eye on the South Africa players playing in the NH)

 

[ncurd]

I'd also like Youngs to start so he has as much time as possible to get red carded and banned for 6 weeks, as so far the refs have been doing an admirable job of removing the players I think we're better off without.

I'll admit this thought had crossed my mind.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So it is because SB wont do it.
But what about post RWC?

Post RWC all bets are off.

From that team, Lawes will probably retire, Arundell and Marchant will be in France, Dan should go back to the ranks to learn his craft behind LCD and maybe Langdon or even McGuigan. Steward's just a FB who needs to improve certain elements of his game. Mercer will be struck by the Gloucester curse.

Evans and current England is a huge culture clash. Given his 6N experience I can't see him touching us with a barge pole anyhow.

 

[Geordie]

Post RWC all bets are off.

From that team, Lawes will probably retire, Arundell and Marchant will be in France, Dan should go back to the ranks to learn his craft behind LCD and maybe Langdon or even McGuigan. Steward's just a FB who needs to improve certain elements of his game. Mercer will be struck by the Gloucester curse.

Evans and current England is a huge culture clash. Given his 6N experience I can't see him touching us with a barge pole anyhow.

Im hoping a few more retire OH. Give us no option but to genuinely rebuild...

I dont know why but i still think SB can do this rebuild...but the current scenario is really not helping that feeling.

I do think the domestic scene needs over hauled aswell. The prem is not the testing ground for internationals it once was...and what ever is required is needed to bring it back to that. (Maybe relegation reinstated)
The A league needs to come back.
The championship needs to play a bigger role in player development also.

Too many players look great at Prem level...some even at European level...then utterly lost at the fitness, pace and physicality of international rugby. This cannot be the case anymore. They need to be ready for that...

 

[Booboobang]

Can't see that tbh,
He was full attack coach during the 6N and we did nothing, bringing him in to work under Wigglesworth, with one game/three weeks before the RWC, isn't going to see us magically transform

This. The problem isnt the attack coach, its the HC strangling what the attack coach can actually do. Attack coaches only work if given the freedom to do it. I think on evidence borthwick does not allow that freedom.

 

[Geordie]

This. The problem isnt the attack coach, its the HC strangling what the attack coach can actually do. Attack coaches only work if given the freedom to do it. I think on evidence borthwick does not allow that freedom.

Is he though? Do we actually know this.....or are things just not happening as quick as we hoped and the players not quite performing.

 

[Booboobang]

Im hoping a few more retire OH. Give us no option but to genuinely rebuild...

I dont know why but i still think SB can do this rebuild...but the current scenario is really not helping that feeling.

I do think the domestic scene needs over hauled aswell. The prem is not the testing ground for internationals it once was...and what ever is required is needed to bring it back to that. (Maybe relegation reinstated)
The A league needs to come back.
The championship needs to play a bigger role in player development also.

Too many players look great at Prem level...some even at European level...then utterly lost at the fitness, pace and physicality of international rugby. This cannot be the case anymore. They need to be ready for that...

I am not really sure on what basis you think this tbh. Had a six nations and summer to implement a style, failed, bring in new players if he had wanted, he didnt. I mean, leicester actually arguably got better after he left last year. The more this goes on the more you wonder was he actually the reason for leicesters sucess or did he just have a dynamite squad and got lucky he caught saracens on a bad day.

 

[Booboobang]

Is he though? Do we actually know this.....or are things just not happening as quick as we hoped and the players not quite performing.

Look at leicester before he left and after he left, attack opened up.
Look at nick evans rugby, at club? Open attacking, international, turgid attacking exactly what we have seen under wiggelsworth.

One common denominator there.

 

[Geordie]

Look at leicester before he left and after he left, attack opened up.
Look at nick evans rugby, at club? Open attacking, international, turgid attacking exactly what we have seen under wiggelsworth.

One common denominator there.

Or maybe he put the system in place...to ALLOW the attack to then open up.

Build the basics then the attack is last....

Edit...Wigglesworth was the attack coach after Borthwick at Leiecester??

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

You're probably right but the Binny one would be intensely frustrating.

I can't see how the Ire game should count for Farrell though. Although WR had appealed, he wasn't banned at that point and Borthwick said that he had intended to play him but didn't because of all the distractions.

As I understand it, Tuesday of pre match week is the really intense training day. Because the hearing was the same day, Faz couldn't attend and that's why he was not selected.

 

[Booboobang]

Or maybe he put the system in place...to ALLOW the attack to then open up.

Build the basics then the attack is last....

Edit...Wigglesworth was the attack coach after Borthwick at Leiecester??

Or thats not what he showed at all in his first two years there. If that was the case surely he would of opened it up in his winning season not the season of regression and it magically wouldnt have opened up after he left. I mean one his last games they scored 5.

Yes, wiggy was HC and led the attack, which magically opened up after two years of turgid kick first rugby.

I am sorry, but you are on copium here, all evidence points to borthwick just not allowing attack coaches to do their thing. Seen it in two seperate instances now.

As for the system, been going great so far hasnt it. Players can barely catch a ball.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Build the basics

When are we starting this step?

 

[Booboobang]

When are we starting this step?

Steve has a plan, will be starting passing and cacthing drills the week prior to the world cup, we can really peak with those skills come game 1 then.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As I understand it, Tuesday of pre match week is the really intense training day. Because the hearing was the same day, Faz couldn't attend and that's why he was not selected.

Makes sense. But he wasn't under sanction and still available for selection, just that SB chose not to pick him.

If the England camp hadn't challenged the bunker decision and stood OF down before a hearing there would be a decent case to say that his ban started then. But that's not what we're looking at here, or at least shouldn't be.

 

[BrokenWing]

Andy Goode reckons it could be a plan to not show your hand before the World Cup… Seems a strange plan if you're using those games to give players a chance. Was Cokanasiga too ****, or not **** enough?

 

[McTallshort]

Andy Goode reckons it could be a plan to not show your hand before the World Cup… Seems a strange plan if you're using those games to give players a chance. Was Cokanasiga too ****, or not **** enough?

Makes you wonder why 3 times winners New Zealand and 3 times winners South Africa have never come up with that cunning plan before

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I can't even fool myself into believing the 'not showing our hand' argument. If it was just that our attack was pretty dull then I could buy it, but knocking on half the balls that come our way is just objectively bad whichever way you paint it. And then there's our defence where players are just missing one on one tackles. None of that is about avoiding showing our game plan.