England World Cup Squad

[Which Tyler]

The "not showing our hand" thing even less water than the "still being beasted, and playing knackered" theory - and that doesn't hold much

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

It's international rugby. The "not showing your hand" is waiting til big knockout games to unleash some new set piece plays or a back line move. Pretty much every game plan is simple due to limited time in camp. Each team will have different philosophies but it's not like the springboks, France, Scotland, etc., are going to be unleashing a brand new way of playing rugby in the next two weeks.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Im hoping a few more retire OH. Give us no option but to genuinely rebuild...

I dont know why but i still think SB can do this rebuild...but the current scenario is really not helping that feeling.

I do think the domestic scene needs over hauled aswell. The prem is not the testing ground for internationals it once was...and what ever is required is needed to bring it back to that. (Maybe relegation reinstated)
The A league needs to come back.
The championship needs to play a bigger role in player development also.

Too many players look great at Prem level...some even at European level...then utterly lost at the fitness, pace and physicality of international rugby. This cannot be the case anymore. They need to be ready for that...

Oh absolutely they will. I was just commenting on the team on the previous page.

And you're absolutely right, the gap between club and country needs addressing - somehow.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's international rugby. The "not showing your hand" is waiting til big knockout games to unleash some new set piece plays or a back line move. Pretty much every game plan is simple due to limited time in camp. Each team will have different philosophies but it's not like the springboks, France, Scotland, etc., are going to be unleashing a brand new way of playing rugby in the next two weeks.

They're in camp for years - or at least it feels like it.

Moves need to be tried and tested in games. So what if they work on the training field? Everyone knows the Sexton wrap around's coming, but it works because it's grooved and been done a thousand times before.

 

[BrokenWing]

But also Sexton plays heads up and knows when to call it. You might know it's coming but because they've moved you to where they want you there's little you can do about it.

 

[McTallshort]

It's international rugby. The "not showing your hand" is waiting til big knockout games to unleash some new set piece plays or a back line move. Pretty much every game plan is simple due to limited time in camp. Each team will have different philosophies but it's not like the springboks, France, Scotland, etc., are going to be unleashing a brand new way of playing rugby in the next two weeks.

That's true but they currently have the basics squared away unlike England so they can unleash something. I remember squigrugby banging on about this regards Eddie Jones. "Eddie's got a master plan" "he's building to something" how you can possibly build anything when your forwards are getting shoved around the park and you're leaking tries is beyond me

 

[Reiser99]

So how about this. Farrell gets 5 weeks and is back for the quarters so Borthwick keeps him in and then England lose in the group stages. That would be ironic.

 

[Geordie]

Or thats not what he showed at all in his first two years there. If that was the case surely he would of opened it up in his winning season not the season of regression and it magically wouldnt have opened up after he left. I mean one his last games they scored 5.

Yes, wiggy was HC and led the attack, which magically opened up after two years of turgid kick first rugby.

I am sorry, but you are on copium here, all evidence points to borthwick just not allowing attack coaches to do their thing. Seen it in two seperate instances now.

As for the system, been going great so far hasnt it. Players can barely catch a ball.

Im on what?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

They're in camp for years - or at least it feels like it.

Moves need to be tried and tested in games. So what if they work on the training field? Everyone knows the Sexton wrap around's coming, but it works because it's grooved and been done a thousand times before.

I'm referring more to the New Zealand line out vs France in 2011. More the surprise moves than the bread and butter.

England does spend a lot of time in camp. It is a little weird how disjointed they look compared to south Africa who fly from all over and have a couple meetings before they take the field.

 

[LIONSxv]

I like that 2nd row, otherwise the guy's in cloud cuckoo land.

I don't get this perspective, you wanted Itoje replaced as he is too small and lightweight. Yet Lawes has never been a strong in the scrum and is lighter than he has been in years

 

[RedruthRFC]

So the RFU brief argues that a game for which Farrell should have been banned, but wasn't thanks to him, then counts towards a ban? Sounds about right and straight out of Yes Minister.

I get your point. This is a bit more of a complicated / confused situation, but there's plenty of precedent of matches for which players were stood down being deducted from any ban in situations when a hearing couldn't be arranged on time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the relevant rules / laws.

Furthermore, from a moral / practical standpoint, I don't see how Farrell's guilty plea can be used against him, given that an independent panel agreed with him. I'm not saying that I agree with them, but it at least illustrates how close a call it was seen as being.

 

[Ferrari333SP]

What time are we expecting the verdict/news?

 

[Booboobang]

Im on what?

Copium - A metaphorical opiate taken in order to cope when one is faced with loss or disillusionment.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't get this perspective, you wanted Itoje replaced as he is too small and lightweight. Yet Lawes has never been a strong in the scrum and is lighter than he has been in years

Main reason I wanted him to at least serve some bench time is that he's been underperforming for years.

Yes I definitely prefer my locks to be taller. I generally prefer heavier too, but that's the least of my issues there.

When previously advocating Lawes at lock for this tournament I've been clear that goes against my general bigger is better front 5 principles. But also noting that his weight stacks up fine against the Irish lads and many others.

 

[TopTen2003]

Main reason I wanted him to at least serve some bench time is that he's been underperforming for years.

Yes I definitely prefer my locks to be taller. I generally prefer heavier too, but that's the least of my issues there.

When previously advocating Lawes at lock for this tournament I've been clear that goes against my general bigger is better front 5 principles. But also noting that his weight stacks up fine against the Irish lads and many others.

It also has the added benefit of enabling a Curry/Willis combination at 6 and 7 too which personally I am quite excited by.

Whilst it is clear Lawes has been campaigned as a 6, having him alongside someone like Chessum would give a nice balance in style and Lawes is terrifically strong so can definitely still play the role especially the short term basis of a RWC.

I agree some bench time could be the catalyst or spark that is needed for players like Itoje.

 

[AlRums]

England must change course or they are heading for disaster at World Cup | Robert Kitson

England under Steve Borthwick are going nowhere, flat and plodding, and desperately need a tactical reboot before next month

www.theguardian.com

 

[Crash Hamster]

Raynal reffing our game against Argentina...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm guessing the panel have finished the biscuits, and sent out for cakes?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm referring more to the New Zealand line out vs France in 2011. More the surprise moves than the bread and butter.

England does spend a lot of time in camp. It is a little weird how disjointed they look compared to south Africa who fly from all over and have a couple meetings before they take the field.

Ah OK. Line out moves are one thing. Getting a backline to execute strike moves with dummy runners etc at pace is another. At pace? Who am I kidding??

They spend way too much time in camp and they won't be the only ones. I'll bet if most were speaking candidly they'll say they're bored sh*tless and that they're way into law of diminishing returns territory.

Working hard's good. Certain data if you know what to do with it can be helpful. But ever increasing amounts of both - which I suspect is going on at Pennyhill Park - can be whatever the opposite of a panacea is.

Seriously - get together a Baa-Baas team from the various tier 1 nations, give them a couple of days training together followed by good nights on the p*ss and if they didn't beat us I reckon they'd come pretty damned close.