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England World Cup Squad

Gutted for Caden. The 4 back 3 players with X Factor (Watson, Coka, Maynd Arundel) in there are all made of glass though so he may well be back.

Possibly harsh on Arundel given he's young but the point remains
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
Chess in and Walker now only injured players left training with the squad
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Good spot
Weird to have VRR drop out in that case surely you have both him and Rodd in and get them under the microscope as much as possible before they trim for the final squad?
 
Rodd essentially gone from not in the extended squad to straight on the plane.

Edit: I tend to try not to be too cynical but it does give some idea of how training is going when Rodd has leapfrogged 2 looseheads just by not being involved in it.
 
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All these 'dreading the RWC' etc. just make me roll my eyes.

I'd have made different selections - including the head coach and I'm not expecting attractive rugby but when it comes down to it, I'll always get behind the team, rather than all this negative BS. If anything, it all just makes me want Borthwick to succeed more.

I'm not surprised to see Murley cut. He even said himself in an interview that the kick chase was a major focus for wingers. That was always going to put him at a disadvantage as it's not one of the strongest parts of his game.

I'm probably more annoyed by VRR as it probably means Mako is going undeservedly. Still, I hope that will be 3rd choice behind Genge and Marler.

Ultimately, as good as they are, Murley and VRR aren't going to be the difference between us doing well or not. Mercer might have made more of a difference, but hey ho …
 
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I think VRR could've made a difference - he's a better scrummager than Genge/Rodd/Mako and this season has been better than Marler (Gloucester had statistically the best scrum, I believe)
Our setpiece isn't very good atm so any improvement on that would be a big boost
 
BPM said:
All these 'dreading the RWC' etc. just make me roll my eyes.

I'd have made different selections - including the head coach and I'm not expecting attractive rugby but when it comes down to it, I'll always get behind the team, rather than all this negative BS. If anything, it all just makes me want Borthwick to succeed more.

I'm not surprised to see Murley cut. He even said himself in an interview that the kick chase was a major focus for wingers. That was always going to put him at a disadvantage as it's not one of the strongest parts of his game.

I'm probably more annoyed by VRR as it probably means Mako is going undeservedly. Still, I hope that will be 3rd choice behind Genge and Marler.

Ultimately, as good as they are, Murley and VRR aren't going to be the difference between us doing well or not. Mercer might have made more of a difference, but hey ho …
Click to expand...

I think we all want the team to do well, it's just that we don't see much consistency or logic. Farrell's dropped, then he's our RWC captain, Binny's not picked and they don't get on, suddenly he seems to be central to our plans etc.

I think there's RWC trepidation in the sense that the most won't be got out of this group of players who do, after all, have a pretty kind draw. I think we all accept that the game plan will be fairly basic, which is absolutely fine provided it's executed well. Big IF though.

Good club player that he is, I'm not especially bothered by Mudley's omission. Can only assume VRR has picked up an injury.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
I think VRR could've made a difference - he's a better scrummager than Genge/Rodd/Mako and this season has been better than Marler (Gloucester had statistically the best scrum, I believe)
Our setpiece isn't very good atm so any improvement on that would be a big boost
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It's tricky I feel to judge on scrums VRR.
Genge with Leicester was destroying top scrums left and right for example

Also rumours that his conditioning work left plenty to be desired which given Borthwick and Walters are fitness fanatics might be the reason
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
It's tricky I feel to judge on scrums VRR.
Genge with Leicester was destroying top scrums left and right for example

Also rumours that his conditioning work left plenty to be desired which given Borthwick and Walters are fitness fanatics might be the reason
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True, but it's hard to think that his scrummaging isn't some way ahead of Rodd, or Mako for that matter. He's also pretty good on turnovers etc.

It would be disappointing to lose out on conditioning - that's something that can be sorted, but equally the coaches have to look at the wider picture - there's more to rugby than gym results.

This feels like an attitude thing, there was all that rumoured stuff about cheating in fitness tests a while back.
 
I do wonder if these training weeks are deliberately more fluid with group selections. This allows players in and out for looking at by coaches but also player welfare of family holiday/time etc and having breaks before the actual full pace of August through to end of World Cup starts.

This idea could mean that players like VRR and Murley have been involved and seen enough, and now getting a break before final selection.
 
Old Hooker said:
I think we all want the team to do well, it's just that we don't see much consistency or logic. Farrell's dropped, then he's our RWC captain, Binny's not picked and they don't get on, suddenly he seems to be central to our plans etc.

I think there's RWC trepidation in the sense that the most won't be got out of this group of players who do, after all, have a pretty kind draw. I think we all accept that the game plan will be fairly basic, which is absolutely fine provided it's executed well. Big IF though.

Good club player that he is, I'm not especially bothered by Mudley's omission. Can only assume VRR has picked up an injury.
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I agree with 99% of your first two paragraphs. We're very much in the same page. However, I don't agree that 'we all accept' the likely gameplan. When people are writing about their shock at certain omissions or their dread of the tournament, it seems there's a good few who don't accept that.

IMO there's a world of difference between a bit of 'RWC trepidation' and saying you're 'dreading' it.

Mumbles119 said:
I do wonder if these training weeks are deliberately more fluid with group selections. This allows players in and out for looking at by coaches but also player welfare of family holiday/time etc and having breaks before the actual full pace of August through to end of World Cup starts.

This idea could mean that players like VRR and Murley have been involved and seen enough, and now getting a break before final selection.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the training weeks. I thought last week's squad was the final 'official group', but it clearly wasn't. Perhaps that also goes for this week?

Also - re. Murley and VRR. Both are uncapped and literally untested at this level. It's looking likely that we'll also have two uncapped players with Pearson and Dan in the squad. Is four too many?
 
Old Hooker said:
True, but it's hard to think that his scrummaging isn't some way ahead of Rodd, or Mako for that matter. He's also pretty good on turnovers etc.

It would be disappointing to lose out on conditioning - that's something that can be sorted, but equally the coaches have to look at the wider picture - there's more to rugby than gym results.

This feels like an attitude thing, there was all that rumoured stuff about cheating in fitness tests a while back.
Click to expand...

TBH conditioning and attitude can be linked.
If he had history of cheating fitness tests then how can it be expected to get into the top condition?

You say more to rugby than gym results but Walters won the RWC with the fitness SA squad all looked like roid heads come the final, and Borthwick was crazy tough with fitness tests at Tigers
 

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