England World Cup Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean why would the want him rehabbing with Saracens rather than England?

Too injured to take part in anything in camp atm, maybe?
The camps are abroad so no point in flying him out to not be able to take part at all

I dunno, just being cynical - I just can't see him not being involved if he's even vaguely fit

looked like roid heads

"looked"

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

View attachment 17179
"looked"

TBF looking at how much weight they put on Martin without losing his speed I do feel like Walters is the best in his class.

 

[BPM]

Too injured to take part in anything in camp atm, maybe?
The camps are abroad so no point in flying him out to not be able to take part at all

I dunno, just being cynical - I just can't see him not being involved if he's even vaguely fit


View attachment 17179
"looked"

Same here although if he does make it, I hope it's firmly as third choice.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

So the squad now looks like:
LP: Genge, Marler, Rodd
HK: George, Dan, Blamire, Walker
TP: Sinckler, Stuart, Cole
LK: Itoje, Ribbans, Martin, Hill, Chessum
FL: Lawes, Curry, Ludlam, Willis, Pearson, Earl
N8: Vunipola, Dombrandt, Willis
SH: Van Poortvliet, Youngs, Care
FH: Farrell, Ford, Smith
CE: Tuilagi, Lawrence, Porter, Slade, Marchant
WG: May, Watson, Arundell, Malins, Cokanasiga
FB: Steward
UB: Daly

That's 42 players with 9 needing to be shaved off.

My guesses at who will be dropped:
Blamire (but Walker if he isn't fit in time)
Hill (but Chessum if he isn't fit in time)
Pearson
Earl
Dombrandt
Porter
Marchant
Malins
Cokanasiga

Giving a final squad of:
LP: Genge, Marler, Rodd
HK: George, Dan, Walker/Blamire
TP: Sinckler, Stuart, Cole
LK, Itoje, Ribbans, Martin, Hill/Chessum
FL: Lawes, Curry, Ludlam, Willis
N8: Vunipola, Willis
SH. Van Poortvliet, Youngs, Care
FH: Farrell, Ford, Smith
CE: Tuilagi, Lawrence, Slade
WG: May, Watson, Arundell
FB: Steward
UB: Daly

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My guesses at who will be dropped:
Earl
Dombrandt

Earl is a weird one because he doesn't seem to be trusted to play but is always right there in the mix - can play all across the backrow but only really fits the 7 role from what we've seen of Borthwick's backrow makeup (he's as far from a Borthwick 8 as you could ask for)

I could see T.Willis and one of the outside backs (Daly?) out with both Earl and Dombrandt in - though that's not really based on anything but gut feeling
T.Willis an unknown quantity until we get to the warm up games, though obviously rated enough for Mercer to be binned off

 

[higgik]

It's tricky I feel to judge on scrums VRR.
Genge with Leicester was destroying top scrums left and right for example

Also rumours that his conditioning work left plenty to be desired which given Borthwick and Walters are fitness fanatics might be the reason

What about Mako then. Would also say his conditioning leaves a lot to be desired

 

[Geordie]

Ok ill ask it...why Blamire dropped over Walker?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What about Mako then. Would also say his conditioning leaves a lot to be desired

Mako isn't even in the squad yet
And one thing about Mako everyone can agree on is his work rate is massive for a prop. Just his scrums that are the issue with most people

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mako could literally cost a team a game in the WC. He's shown repeatedly that even as a sub, he can give away a penalty at every scrum.

I'm not sure if coaching is really going to help him because he now has that reputation. Less risky to take either VRR or Rodd in my mind.

 

[Geordie]

Thats why i was puzzled Tom West never registered with England...cracking LH.

 

[Makeshift10]

I agree with 99% of your first two paragraphs. We're very much in the same page. However, I don't agree that 'we all accept' the likely gameplan. When people are writing about their shock at certain omissions or their dread of the tournament, it seems there's a good few who don't accept that.

IMO there's a world of difference between a bit of 'RWC trepidation' and saying you're 'dreading' it.



I don't really understand the training weeks. I thought last week's squad was the final 'official group', but it clearly wasn't. Perhaps that also goes for this week?

Also - re. Murley and VRR. Both are uncapped and literally untested at this level. It's looking likely that we'll also have two uncapped players with Pearson and Dan in the squad. Is four too many?

Tom Willis quite possible too.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

TBH conditioning and attitude can be linked.
If he had history of cheating fitness tests then how can it be expected to get into the top condition?

You say more to rugby than gym results but Walters won the RWC with the fitness SA squad all looked like roid heads come the final, and Borthwick was crazy tough with fitness tests at Tigers

Not downplaying the conditioning at all, but that should be a minimum requirement. Nearly 30 years into the pro game, differences should be minimal but great if you can get an edge.

Sounds like Walters is good, but the Boks and Tigers have traditionally played a power based game. Interesting to see how he does if he doesn't have a team of Orcs or slightly wider horizons - aka Proudfoot syndrome.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not downplaying the conditioning at all, but that should be a minimum requirement. Nearly 30 years into the pro game, differences should be minimal but great if you can get an edge.

Sounds like Walters is good, but the Boks and Tigers have traditionally played a power based game. Interesting to see how he does if he doesn't have a team of Orcs or slightly wider horizons - aka Proudfoot syndrome.

I mean let's say
1. Genge, 2. George, 3. Sinckler
4. Martin, 5. Itoje
6. Lawes, 7. Curry, 8. Vunipola
Is on paper is a big

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ok ill ask it...why Blamire dropped over Walker?

Because Borthwick selected Walker on the bench for every game of the 6N while not even bringing Blamire into camp.

If Walker is fit then I think it's a race between Blamire and Dan for the 3rd slot.

Again, this is what I'm expecting of Borthwick. Not necessarily what I'd do myself.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Walker wasn't going to get picked if fit why is Borthwick keeping him for so long

That being said I think Dan won't make it

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Because Borthwick selected Walker on the bench for every game of the 6N while not even bringing Blamire into camp.

If Walker is fit then I think it's a race between Blamire and Dan for the 3rd slot.

Again, this is what I'm expecting of Borthwick. Not necessarily what I'd do myself.

Although Walker got so little game time, it was patently obvious that he wasn't trusted.

I suspect Blamire might be seen as the bench option as he can at least up the pace and bring something a bit different. Walker might be the option to start if anything happens to George. Like Tigs I don't think Dan will travel.

 

[Geordie]

If Walker wasn't going to get picked if fit why is Borthwick keeping him for so long

That being said I think Dan won't make it

Same can be said Of Blamire?

And Jamie has improved his lineout work quite a bit..

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mean let's say
1. Genge, 2. George, 3. Sinckler
4. Martin, 5. Itoje
6. Lawes, 7. Curry, 8. Vunipola
Is on paper is a big

Yep, but probably not going to intimidate France or the Boks though.

More worryingly how many of those have actually been throwing their weight around and performing like we know they can over the last couple of years? Some in glimpses, but very few consistently. Martin obvs excluded.

 

[Jimbo]

What's equally as worrying is, if even by some miracle that pack play to their potential it's hard to think who comes in and keeps that intensity or any impact from the bench.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genge -> Rodd
George -> Blamire
Sinckler -> ??? (I guess Stuart but he doesn't use his weight effectively and isn't very athletic, but still better than Cole in the loose)
Martin/Itoje -> Ribbans
Lawes/Curry/Willis -> J.Willis or T.Willis

Decent impact bench IMO