England World Cup Squad

[ncurd]

Im really struggling to believe these stats

Ben Earl, Ludlum, Curry and Underhill ....no attacking rucks...about 3 between them?
Jack Willis - so few tackles?
Ted Hill and Courtney lawes - almost zero tackles??
etc etc
Nah...something amiss here...

With Curry and Underhill it makes some sense they are such dominant tacklers they don't hit rucks as often they're either the guy who made the tackle, jackling or lining up to be the guy who makes the next defensive tackle.

 

[Geordie]

With Curry and Underhill it makes some sense they are such dominant tacklers they don't hit rucks as often they're either the guy who made the tackle, jackling or lining up to be the guy who makes the next defensive tackle.

But this was saying attacking rucks?

So theyre saying that in all the games they've played for Sale or bath or Saracens etc...none of those cracking flankers have been first to an attacking ruck for quick ball ??

i just dont buy it.

 

[ncurd]

But this was saying attacking rucks?

So theyre saying that in all the games they've played for Sale or bath or Saracens etc...none of those cracking flankers have been first to an attacking ruck for quick ball ??

i just dont buy it.

Ah point, brain not working I'm thinking of attacking the ruck to obtain the ball as opposed to defending a ruck from its being stolen.

Do any England players support an attacking ruck? We see little evidence for it at international level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's comparatively, not total numbers
Look at the ones with the big attacking ruck numbers: three hybrid locks and Pearson
If Curry hits 15 attacking rucks but Itoje hits 30 and Isiekwe 25 then his graph will be lower regardless of whether 15 is a good number or not, simply because others are higher

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean for their clubs the majority of those back rowers are either link players or carriers

Think it's telling who hits the attacking rucks v who doesn't

In terms of energy consumption it also makes sense

 

[Geordie]

It's comparatively, not total numbers
Look at the ones with the big attacking ruck numbers: three hybrid locks and Pearson
If Curry hits 15 attacking rucks but Itoje hits 30 and Isiekwe 25 then his graph will be lower regardless of whether 15 is a good number or not, simply because others are higher

I get that and i know players will be specifically asked to do certain things...be second man at the tackle, or stay out of defensive rucks etc. but im still unconvinced by all these stats.

Regardless just going on those it would suggest in Curry, Pearson, Ludlum we have some quality back rowers.

And that Ted HIll needs a size 11 up his jacksie or he'll be a what if....unless hes being asked to play a specifc roll...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

And that Ted HIll needs a size 11 up his jacksie or he'll be a what if....unless hes being asked to play a specifc roll...

Doubt any coach has assigned him the role of doing literally **** all

 

[LIONSxv]

Opta charts on the backrowers:

I'm dubious on some of the numbers. What this clearly demonstrates is that in England lock type 6s contribute far less than genuine flankers. The first 6 players Vs the latter 6 is compelling. You literally gain a few line out takes Vs a dozen or more important facets of the game.
Most rounded three are Curry, Willis and Pearson as you would suspect

 

[MarkyH]

Curry, Pearson, Mercer. Yes please.

 

[Nudger]

It's weird stats because it looks like it's only looking at Martin's games in the backrow, but looking at Itoje's games at lock
Maybe if you mixed in Martin's lock games it bumps it up - honestly not sure, never really paid attention to him in the lineout
He last played backrow in December, and it's really been since the 6N where he's looked noticeably better with each game

Maro's stats 0 mins played in the back row lol

 

[Geordie]

So in actual fact we're looking for something like...

4 Chessum or Martin with improved lineout
5 Itoje
6 Pearson / Willis
7 Curry
8 Mercer

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Is there an equivalent set of stats for locks using a slightly different set of measures? All I'm seeing at the moment is validation of my view that Itoje has been a 6 in disguise all along…..

For back rowers stuff like pens won / conceded and yellows is always interesting.

 

[LIONSxv]

So in actual fact we're looking for something like...

4 Chessum or Martin with improved lineout
5 Itoje
6 Pearson / Willis
7 Curry
8 Mercer

I think you would need Martin next to Itoje to add ballast. The same with Pearson next to Mercer.
Although I doubt the would play two newbies together at WC.

Those stats back my thoughts that Willis carries hard and well. Although I suppose at 6 3 and 17 stone he should !

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Regardless just going on those it would suggest in Curry, Pearson, Ludlum we have some quality back rowers.

At club level. The requirements of the international game are different and not everyone can step up.

Curry's proven, although had extended quiet periods. Pearson looks to the manor born, but we won't know until he's had a few games against good opposition. Ludlam's never let England down, but nor has he ever really looked more than a reliable bench option or stand in.

Options galore is great, but even better is continuity and establishing a trio that are automatically on the team sheet and develop an instinctual understanding of each other's game. The most effective unit isn't necessarily the 'best' 3 individual players, but that's probably a post RWC priority.

 

[Scotty]

At club level. The requirements of the international game are different and not everyone can step up.

Curry's proven, although had extended quiet periods. Pearson looks to the manor born, but we won't know until he's had a few games against good opposition. Ludlam's never let England down, but nor has he ever really looked more than a reliable bench option or stand in.

Options galore is great, but even better is continuity and establishing a trio that are automatically on the team sheet and develop an instinctual understanding of each other's game. The most effective unit isn't necessarily the 'best' 3 individual players, but that's probably a post RWC priority.

I agree 100%. Ludlam ive always thought his workrate is insane but his ceiling is low.

Right now if all fit id be playing Curry Mercer Underhill, Willis. Pearson in reserve. Its a proven back row the only issue is Underhills injury risk. Im just not convinced by Ludlam, and not sure where THill fits if Mercer likes to carry so much. Plus curry underhill and willis as the other 3 allows mercer(or Dombrandt if he gets the nod) to play their natural game.

Post WC Pearson has earned a chance to prove himself.

 

[Geordie]

I have a suspicion Pearson will force his way in to these world cup plans. The guy looks a physically big and strong AND has all the rugby skills a back rower could want.

Just need to see if he can transfer that to the international level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England's official Rugby World Cup 2023 training squad

Forwards (23)
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 100 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 45 caps)
Theo Dan (Saracens, uncapped)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 14 caps)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 15 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 48 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 77 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 67 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 97 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 19 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 79 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Val Rapava-Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 61 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 25 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 29 caps)
Jack Willis (Toulouse, 10 caps)
Tom Willis (Bordeaux Bègles, uncapped)

Backs (18)
Henry Arundell (London Irish, 7 caps)
Danny Care (Harlequins, 87 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 57 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 106 caps)
George Ford (Sale Sharks, 81 caps)
Max Malins (Saracens, 18 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 15 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 72 caps)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 56 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 21 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 51 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
Anthony Watson (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 122 caps)

Rehabilitation (5)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 79 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 68 caps)
Jack Walker (Harlequins, 3 caps)

 

[will311293]

Updated:

IN: Farrell, Daly, Dan, Earl, George, Itoje, Malins (Sarries), T Curry, Tuilagi, Hill, Rodd, Ford (Sale), T Willis (Bordeaux), J Willis (Toulouse)

Out: Mercer, Dingwall, Feeman, F Smith, Dunn Ewels, Hayes, T Hill,

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Great to see Theo Dan and Tom Willis involved,

LCD confirmed as out of the tournament - shoulder injury hasn't progressed enough

 

[will311293]

Jack and Tom Willis .... feel like a proud dad (Apart from fairly sure they are only two years younger than me)