England World Cup Squad

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Personally prefer 6 Curry 7 Earl 8 insert real 8 here (Mercer my choice). Underhill in the squad/bench.

Also not convinced we dont see Freeman as the 13 for the six nations. Playing there for saints and a big ol lump that borthwick will like. Not sure out backline could handle having 3 players with speed in it though.

Freeman played one game at 13 due to injuries with our centres. He also then injured himself in that game. I really don't think we'll see freeman at 13 unless Injuries permit again.

And Freeman is actually a FB, he's a lot better than Furbank in my opinion but he also plays wing.

 

[Jashay]

I was complaining that with Faz inked in at 10 and England's general game plan we might as well pick backs based on defensive ability since they'll rarely be called on to attack ball in hand.

I meant it tongue-in-cheek but I've actually come around to the idea, at least for the centres. I came away from this WC with the impression that teams were finding it pretty easy to slice through our defence as soon as they got a bit of width, and I can't help but feel a defensive organiser in the midfield would really help with that.

Is there anyone who fits that kind of mould? I've fallen into the trap of only watching the highlight reels of the Prem; they never show that sort of thing, so I have no idea what options we have for a defensive centre.

 

[higgik]

Personally prefer 6 Curry 7 Earl 8 insert real 8 here (Mercer my choice). Underhill in the squad/bench.

Also not convinced we dont see Freeman as the 13 for the six nations. Playing there for saints and a big ol lump that borthwick will like. Not sure out backline could handle having 3 players with speed in it though.

I also forgot that Sarries could be playing
6 McFarland
7 Earl
8 T Willis

Maybe swap Pearson in for an England back row, would be interesting.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean why is Earl not viewed as a real 8? His 8 performances have been the best in ages really prob prime Billy maybe even better than that.
He's nearly the same weight and height stats as Ardie Savea

He's also the same age as Savea was when he made the permanent change from 7 to 8.
I think for England's sake he needs to play one position now.

I don't think Sarries would do it but hoping that they go Willis on the flank with Earl playing an attacking 8 and defending 7 sort of role.
6. T.Willis
7. Curry
8. Earl

20. Pearson/Ludlam

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Kpoku's an interesting one, no love lost between him and Saracens from interviews after he asked for a (2 year) early release - I wouldn't be surprised if he just stays in France for the rest of his career, apparently he's fluent in French (both parents from the Congo)

There'll be another one along in a minute. Junior's on the books at Exeter. Just turned 18 and listed at 2.04m and 117kg. Some decent sized locks coming through at last.

As for Dan, he's a way off yet - set piece needs fixing and will have to dislodge George at club level. Langdon seems interesting and talking of younger siblings isn't his brother playing for Sale?

In the back row, who knows? Vacancy at 6 and I always think we look better with Underhill in the team although arguments for Martin at 6 as a stopper. Pearson the wattbike meister is a big ball playing 7 and will emerge soon with CCS a year or 2 behind. Barbeary seems to be fit, then there's Mercer and T Willis all itching for a chance. B Curry has probably slipped down the list a bit. Ludlam there or thereabouts. T Curry and Earl presumably start the 6N inked in.

Now if we could just find some scrummaging props….

 

[TRF_Olyy]

and talking of younger siblings isn't his brother playing for Sale?

Yeah, made his Prem debut yesterday - was probably the only bright spark in a very very terrible performance
Not sure what his contract situation is as he's actually a Sale FC player we drafted in after Taylor and Caine both got injured this week. Hopefully we do sign him up, though, as he looks very promising

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

There'll be another one along in a minute. Junior's on the books at Exeter. Just turned 18 and listed at 2.04m and 117kg. Some decent sized locks coming through at last.

As for Dan, he's a way off yet - set piece needs fixing and will have to dislodge George at club level. Langdon seems interesting and talking of younger siblings isn't his brother playing for Sale?

In the back row, who knows? Vacancy at 6 and I always think we look better with Underhill in the team although arguments for Martin at 6 as a stopper. Pearson the wattbike meister is a big ball playing 7 and will emerge soon with CCS a year or 2 behind. Barbeary seems to be fit, then there's Mercer and T Willis all itching for a chance. B Curry has probably slipped down the list a bit. Ludlam there or thereabouts. T Curry and Earl presumably start the 6N inked in.

Now if we could just find some scrummaging props….

Heads up Junior left Exeter and signed for Racing

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Heads up Junior left Exeter and signed for Racing

Cheers. Someone needs to tell Exeter's webmaster.

 

[Booboobang]

I mean why is Earl not viewed as a real 8? His 8 performances have been the best in ages really prob prime Billy maybe even better than that.
He's nearly the same weight and height stats as Ardie Savea

He's also the same age as Savea was when he made the permanent change from 7 to 8.
I think for England's sake he needs to play one position now.

I don't think Sarries would do it but hoping that they go Willis on the flank with Earl playing an attacking 8 and defending 7 sort of role.
6. T.Willis
7. Curry
8. Earl

20. Pearson/Ludlam

Its not that he is not good as an 8, he very obviously is. But as with Savea, I think his best position is 7. Savea only moved to 8 as NZ was never dropping Cane. I think Earl will be playing 7 for saracens, he should be a starter for England at 7, this isnt a case where he has to change his position because a captain is blocking his spot and as good as he did filling a hole at 8 I dont think we lose anything by playing him at 7, and potentially gain a lot by bringing willis or mercer.

Curry is more than good enough to shift to 6 and not drop off, depending on whether borthwick is willing to go away from a second row style 6, if he isnt then yeah Earl probably stays at 8 since in my mind he is pretty undroppable now as curry is.

 

[Booboobang]

Freeman played one game at 13 due to injuries with our centres. He also then injured himself in that game. I really don't think we'll see freeman at 13 unless Injuries permit again.

And Freeman is actually a FB, he's a lot better than Furbank in my opinion but he also plays wing.

Sure, Freeman as a junior moved through fly half, to centre to fullback though, so not like he hasnt played it before. One big hole we have going forward is a ball carrying centre since Lawrence has been very up and down in my eyes.

I wouldnt be upset if he was a wing for england, fullback skillset probably means he at least offers utility rather than being stranded on his wing waiting for ball that never comes,

 

[TRF_Olyy]

depending on whether borthwick is willing to go away from a second row style 6

Tbf bringing in either Willis or Mercer at 8 would help with that, both good lineout operators

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Its not that he is not good as an 8, he very obviously is. But as with Savea, I think his best position is 7. Savea only moved to 8 as NZ was never dropping Cane. I think Earl will be playing 7 for saracens, he should be a starter for England at 7, this isnt a case where he has to change his position because a captain is blocking his spot and as good as he did filling a hole at 8 I dont think we lose anything by playing him at 7, and potentially gain a lot by bringing willis or mercer.

Curry is more than good enough to shift to 6 and not drop off, depending on whether borthwick is willing to go away from a second row style 6, if he isnt then yeah Earl probably stays at 8 since in my mind he is pretty undroppable now as curry is.

and yet he is prob the best number 8 in the world.


Honestly i'm cooling a bit on Mercer (prob because he's playing for glous so I understand that's it for England).

 

[Booboobang]

and yet he is prob the best number 8 in the world.


Honestly i'm cooling a bit on Mercer (prob because he's playing for glous so I understand that's it for England).

Oh 100%, but then if they had dropped cane he would probably be the best 7 in the world, guy is just an insanely good player.

Doesnt even have to be mercer; he is my number 1, but could go Willis etc...

In reality, I think we see earl at 8 and martin at 6 for the near future. Just not sure that is for the best considering he likely isnt going to be playing 8 for saracens.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

It would be very england like to have our 6 and 8 play in different positions for their clubs

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really dislike the idea of players playing out of their club positions. I guess a lot depends on tigers with Chessum and Martin both being there and also younger Chessum to get some game time.

Back row I'm less bothered about as there isn't too much difference as long as whoever plays 8 has experience there.

I'd go

Locks Chessum, Itoje, martin and another

And back row:

Earl, Ludlum, curry, Pearson, underhill, T Willis and mercer.

Can't think of my other lock right now but don't want Iseikwe until he nails a starting spot at sarries.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's depressing that we seem to have a lot of talent coming through on paper at least (minus props) but I get the feeling we are just going to muck about with non-complimentary partnerships and pick players whose strengths suit one game plan but then play a completely different one, ie how every single 8 has been used as a Billy V prime and we never adopted our tactics to the fact he hasn't been around for years, or how our entire centre philosophy is about Tuilagi being there come what may and with no apparent thought for what we do when he isn't. This tunnel vision has really hampered us, especially as both of those players have long injury records.

We could be looking at some pretty bruising lock and back row combos in the future but it will count for sod all if we don't use the properly.

Also, I know this horse has been beaten to death, resurrected and then had the undeath beaten out of it but Farrell has got to ******* go. I have seen so little positive from him as a player and captain in too long now, if anything I see him hampering the team vastly more than helping. If there is an element of truth in him thinking he's the big dog and that causing friction among the newer players, then there is no space for him. I don't see anything he brings and he does more to deny our backs possession and kill any momentum than any other player on the pitch. Hell I wouldn't mind him kicking if it was useful like the Boks kicking was but it isn't, it's completely aimless or so poorly executed it may as well be. I get the impression he's the sort of player coaches love because he is yelling a lot in training and telling others to do x, y and z but it feels to me a lot like people at work who make a lot of noise and get noticed by management whilst being **** poor at their job. Eg I knew a guy who got complimented by the owner of the company I work for for how he presented himself etc, completely unaware of the fact he had the reputation for being so useless nobody would give him work and questions had been asked lower down if we could get rid of him.

 

[Which Tyler]

Coaches love Farrell, because he will never EVER deviate from the gameplan, even if it's clear and obvious to everybody, probably including Farrell, that deviation is the best choice.

If you deviate and it goes wrong, it's the player's fault.
If you stick and it goes wrong, it's the coach's fault.
It's more than his job's worth to play what's in front of him.
After all, no-one ever got fired for doing what their boss told them to.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm 100% in the remove Farrell camp, he comes across so rude to the refs and the way other players had to pull him away is just a joke.

He's just not very good. Hopefully SB bins him off as captain and as first choice 10 but I doubt it as SB sucks balls just like Farrell and Binny.

 

[duncanb]

Coaches love Farrell, because he will never EVER deviate from the gameplan, even if it's clear and obvious to everybody, probably including Farrell, that deviation is the best choice.

If you deviate and it goes wrong, it's the player's fault.
If you stick and it goes wrong, it's the coach's fault.
It's more than his job's worth to play what's in front of him.
After all, no-one ever got fired for doing what their boss told them to.

Of course history tells us different, Nuremburg trials for one.
Unless Farrell is Spear.
Lol.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell's captaincy really deteriorated over the course of the world cup as well - he was never the best with referees but in the quarter/semi he was actively hostile towards the refs and had to be dragged away
It should be the captain calming down other people not the other way round