England World Cup Squad

[BPM]

Id be amazed if SB didnt beg Cole to stay on for a bit longer (if he has intentions of retiring). Sinckler and Stuart need to really get their act together going forward.

Tight head.
Schonert?
Painter?? Baxter may do a job on him and hes huge.
Fasogabon??

Loose head
Baxter
Rodd needs a scrummaging camp.
West?

If Rob Baxter can work some magic on Painter it would be very useful. However, I feel like he's more likely Williams mkII. Big but nothing special.

If not, Schikerling will be eligible next month and has always looked good for Exeter.

I have huge hopes for Harper at Sale. If he can stay fit and build experience, I think he's a serious prospect.

Stuart is a lot better than he gets credit for.

On the other side of the scrum, it's a bit soon for Fin Baxter. He's a great prospect but needs a full season of regular game time before being a serious option.

Obano and VRR are surely better short-mid term options?

 

[Jimbo]

If Rob Baxter can work some magic on Painter it would be very useful. However, I feel like he's more likely Williams mkII. Big but nothing special.

If not, Schikerling will be eligible next month and has always looked good for Exeter.

I have huge hopes for Harper at Sale. If he can stay fit and build experience, I think he's a serious prospect.

Stuart is a lot better than he gets credit for.

On the other side of the scrum, it's a bit soon for Fin Baxter. He's a great prospect but needs a full season of regular game time before being a serious option.

Obano and VRR are surely better short-mid term options?

Never understood VRR not making it maybe didn't train well, he was called to a few camps if I remember correctly, Omano has had injury issues so easy to gage that one. Simon Mcintrye could be used for a season or two probably won't make next WC as he'll be 36 but if you want some experience and quality to bridge a short term gap you could do worse, he won't have any of the negatives associated with previous inclusions in the English setups or feelings of automatic inclusion regardless of form of which I think there is a real issue with some.

 

[BPM]

Obano has definitely been derailed by injuries. In other circumstances, I think he'd mostly likely have been established as 3rd choice already.

VRR is a weird one. Lots of rumours around training performance, but it seems nuts to ignore a player who is consistently up there with the best in his position in the Premiership.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah if Obano is over his injury fully then he could easily be our starting loosehead this RWC cycle - very good in the scrum and very good around the park

Would like to see VRR back in the mix but after being dropped by two successive coaches without even making it onto the pitch that seems unlikely, imo

 

[Geordie]

Yeah if Obano is over his injury fully then he could easily be our starting loosehead this RWC cycle - very good in the scrum and very good around the park

Would like to see VRR back in the mix but after being dropped by two successive coaches without even making it onto the pitch that seems unlikely, imo

Wasnt there talk coming out of camp that VRR was lazy in training. That wouldnt sit well with Borthwick and Sinfield.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If Mercer is not involved for England somewhere in the next cycle then I shall personally fart in SBs face.

 

[West Country Wail]

Baxter was impressive again yesterday. He's still got a long way to go in terms of development yet and I'm not sure if playing for England yet would be good for that dev, but he defo should be in the convo for camp at the minute

Agreed. Him and Painter are different ends of the height order I think but bags of potential. Plus, isn't it a tactic to have a short prop and a lanky one on the bench or vice versa?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Dombrandt can get back to full form and fitness then I'd back him to get another shot.

Realistically the main problem was his handling which is really weird given that's not been a problem before - I still have belief he is good enough as a player and was immense for quins again yesterday

TBH I didn't think he looked physical or fit enough either. And I think that's going to be a big thing for Borthwick. Also says something that a clearly less than peak Binny was picked ahead of him.

But largely academic now. Earl owns the shirt (whether he stays at 8 is another matter). Mercer and T Willis are available, who both excelled in France for varying periods of time, Barbeary's playing and CCS will properly emerge over the next couple of years. Dombrandt's had a shot and I doubt will be getting another look in for a while unless something changes.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I've got a question for some of those on here who know much more than I about the laws:

At age group levels in England scrums are only allowed to shove 1.5 metres. Is that the case worldwide? I can see that this law is also used in Wales and Ireland but can't find anything about the Southern Hem and particularly South Africa.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Nick Isiekwe sits behind tizzard at Sarries then he shouldn't be in the England conversation.

I also would question what he offers as an X factor, but maybe Chessum has increased my expectations recently.

 

[Jashay]

Wasnt there talk coming out of camp that VRR was lazy in training. That wouldnt sit well with Borthwick and Sinfield.

I really hope it wasn't that, given that Billy was picked and he happily admits that he's lazy... But it does actually ring a bell. Seems very much at odds with how he plays though

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The stories were he was cheating in fitness sessions/tests

Would be odd to get to this stage of your career, and be in a world cup camp, and do something like that - but that's what the gossip merchants were saying
Supposedly he did it a number of years ago when SB was an assistant coach and then did the same again when called up by SB as head honcho

 

[BPM]

If Nick Isiekwe sits behind tizzard at Sarries then he shouldn't be in the England conversation.

I also would question what he offers as an X factor, but maybe Chessum has increased my expectations recently.

I think Isiekwe's stand out strength is his aerial ability. He is a very good lineout jumper on both attacking and defensive lineouts. Added to a very good engine, that makes him a very decent player to have. Not enough to be a regular starter at test level though. His carrying is also weak for such a big man.

Tizard is almost the opposite. Not much of a lineout operator but a good carrier who hits good lines and can throw his weight around very effectively for a young guy.

I doubt it's an either/or situation given they offer such different strengths.

Still - as a general rule of thumb, I think being a regular starter at club level has to be a pre-requisite for selection. I can forgive rotation for younger players breaking through but I'd question any more experienced players that are getting picked without being nailed on in their club's starting XV.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Tizard is almost the opposite. Not much of a lineout operator but a good carrier who hits good lines and can throw his weight around very effectively for a young guy.

Still miffed that he left Quins for Them. *spits*

 

[Geordie]

Wouldn't Tizard be up against Martin for the tight head lock spot..and whilst Martin has had a quiet World Cup...he came alive in the SF giving a glimpse of what he can bring to this team.

I think 3 spots are safe on the locks ( Itoje, Chessum, Martin) with one going spare to replace Ribbans.
Guess it depends who is putting his hand up over the next few months...

 

[BPM]

Yep. Pretty much between Isiekwe, Tizard and Coles for me. I don't think there's anyone else that close unless Arthur Clark at Gloucester and Lewis Chessum can get enough game time to force consideration.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yep. Pretty much between Isiekwe, Tizard and Coles for me. I don't think there's anyone else that close unless Arthur Clark at Gloucester and Lewis Chessum can get enough game time to force consideration.

Just to replace Ribbans?

 

[jordiev]

See, I am seeing earl as an 8, but personally dont want to see that long term. I think lakes is probably done now and 6/7 should probably be curry and earl for the foreseeable.

I would have Mercer at 8 in a heartbeat with Willis backing him up.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Moon has been solid as the right head lock but Cole's seems to play blind side mostly so I'm not sure I'd have him for England until he nails a starting spot with us.

I must say though that Cole's is excellent at what he does. His handling, ball skills, tackling, line out work. He's definitely got international level skills, just need him to own a starting spot and push on.

 

[Geordie]

Yep. Pretty much between Isiekwe, Tizard and Coles for me. I don't think there's anyone else that close unless Arthur Clark at Gloucester and Lewis Chessum can get enough game time to force consideration.

Yes that makes sense...I guess Johnny Hill is out the equation now?