England vs Wales - 12/08/23

[higgik]

I think it's harsh people doubting Arundell's ability at this level given England's chronic inability to get the ball to our back three in space.

Our USP seems to be give the ball to our forwards for a few phases then send a kick up hoping for Freddie or a winger to win it in the air. It's boring, predictable and just sh*t.

The 2 best club teams in the premiership last year, had a basic game plan that involved recognising when to handle and when to kick.
This was not prescribed by territory or position, but by the situation in the moment.
Hence we saw kicks in the attacking 22 and running from own 22.
This was because the players were given freedom to recognise the situation and play accordingly.
This was managed by Ford for Sale and ....
Goode for Sarries.
Just wish Farrell had other voices on the pitch to help him out, as I think overall he is better than Ford.
My biggest gripe is that both don't play like they do for clubs, maybe more to do with gameplan and lack of trust.

Could the Ford move to Sale be more than money and location?

Maybe he felt SB would be too prescriptive at Tigers.

 

[Jimbo]

I get where people are coming from with OF but let's not forget he has been a pretty key cog for Sarries and a big part of England in 2019, pretty sure someone said that Ford had been the inform 10 in the prem last few seasons which for me is literally trying to change the facts to fit yesterdays turn of events when he came on rather than what's happened prior, Ford barely played any rugby for Sale due to injury, when he did in the final Farrell was the stand out. That is a fairly over simplistic view of the final and many arguments could be made to justify why Ford had few influences and some maybe valid. If someone with no prior knowledge of the game or players watched the game I doubt they would be saying Ford was the better.

With all that said I think OF has had his best days in a England shirt and his days there should be done, Ford is probably the here and now and I don't have a problem with that just don't think the past should be altered or erased to reflect that.

 

[Saintjay]

I reckon it's a blessing in disguise for England. Everyone seems to rave about him, but I don't get it. He kicks and passes OK, but doesn't seem to offer much else. You don't need to be quick to play 10, but you need a bit of pace. Farrell seems exceptionally slow for an international 10. He rarely makes line-breaks, not even half breaks and when he does he's easily caught. I think he's got 100+ caps and scored 10 tries. Dan Carter, with a similar amount of caps has got around 30.

Sexton and Dan Biggar aren't exactly blessed with pace and scoring tries for fun. Neither did Wilkinson he wasn't exactly a pacey scoring machine. You can be Marcus Smith and it counts for nothing when your getting turned over because your supports two seconds behind to clear out.

 

[Nudger]

What did people think of Lawrence?

Only good for 40 minutes same as manu

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think it's harsh people doubting Arundell's ability at this level given England's chronic inability to get the ball to our back three in space.

Our USP seems to be give the ball to our forwards for a few phases then send a kick up hoping for Freddie or a winger to win it in the air. It's boring, predictable and just sh*t.

Might be harsh but flip side most people who rave about him are basing it on a handful of highlights

 

[LIONSxv]

What did people think of Lawrence?

I like him, not sure what people are expecting him to do with no ball and the ball that he did get was scrappy and running into traffic
The days of big centres making 20 meters in traffic are gone. Teams are too well organised and have similar sized players themselves

 

[higgik]

I get where people are coming from with OF but let's not forget he has been a pretty key cog for Sarries and a big part of England in 2019, pretty sure someone said that Ford had been the inform 10 in the prem last few seasons which for me is literally trying to change the facts to fit yesterdays turn of events when he came on rather than what's happened prior, Ford barely played any rugby for Sale due to injury, when he did in the final Farrell was the stand out. That is a fairly over simplistic view of the final and many arguments could be made to justify why Ford had few influences and some maybe valid. If someone with no prior knowledge of the game or players watched the game I doubt they would be saying Ford was the better.

With all that said I think OF has had his best days in a England shirt and his days there should be done, Ford is probably the here and now and I don't have a problem with that just don't think the past should be altered or erased to reflect that.

I agree with the OF situation.
He is an integral part of the Sarries success, but that is it, he is part of a team.

For England he looks like he is lost and follows instructions to a tee, while for Sarries, he has other leaders to help him or sometimes tell him what to do.

This is a distinct issue for England, just look back to 2003 and there were many leaders. One story says that Johnson was getting angry at ref and decisions were not going our way. Up steps Dayglo and Dawson to move him away and talk to ref.
Good leadership by all.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I think the RFU have done a poor job in making any other player seem the face of the team as it's been Farrell for so long now.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who England need right now:



On a contract up until 2026.

 

[higgik]

Who England need right now:

View attachment 17334

On a contract up until 2026.

A coach who allows players to think for themselves.

 

[higgik]

My starting 15 v Ireland
1. Marler
2. Walker
3. Sinckler
4. Martin
5. Chessum
6. Ludlam
7. Curry
8. Billy!!!!
9. Youngs!!!!!
10. Smith
11. Daly
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Arundell

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who England need right now:

View attachment 17334

On a contract up until 2026.

We're doing just fine winning no trophies on our own, there's no need to bring him in too

 

[Noonz]

My starting 15 v Ireland
1. Marler
2. Walker
3. Sinckler
4. Martin
5. Chessum
6. Ludlam
7. Curry
8. Billy!!!!
9. Youngs!!!!!
10. Smith
11. Daly
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Arundell

I like it, but I think England are in for a smacking no matter the lineup

 

[higgik]

I like it, but I think England are in for a smacking no matter the lineup

True, but at least have a plan to run it.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Expect all the Welshmen who demanded a long ban for Marler to do the same here.

 

[Which Tyler]

Surely we'd need to know what was supposed to have said before we can judge whether it crossed a line and is anything other than a false-equivalence.

Or did I miss the bit in the article - so many ad.s to scroll past


ETA: Ah, I see, it's the tweet, rather than the article - my phone browser doesn't show tweets, so I went straight to Wales Online, and thus completely missed the joke.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We're doing just fine winning no trophies on our own, there's no need to bring him in too

He brings hope, sustained highs followed by crushing lows. It's a different brand of horrible.

Expect all the Welshmen who demanded a long ban for Marler to do the same here.

There's far too many layers of sarcasm here for the internet, be careful.

 

[higgik]

Expect all the Welshmen who demanded a long ban for Marler to do the same here.

That is a really clever comment and is actually very funny.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Got to love how well this fully professional rebranding has been going too.

 

[Zed]

England's secret

So he's not very good because he hasn't got as many tries as arguably the best 10 to ever play?

I see your point but I don't think measuring him against Dan Carter makes sense.

Yeah not a relevant stat I suppose. I wonder if part of the problem is England (and other teams) are being over-coached? It's drilled into them that this stage of the game they do X, Y, Z, if they're in their 22, they kick, any penalties they go for line, or goal, no tap and gos etc etc It's pretty limiting and stops players like Arundell playing their natural game, playing with a bit of freedom. If he gets the ball on England's tryline there's no way he's having a crack like he did for London Irish. He's kicking it out. I'm not saying players should be running around like headless chooks running it from their 22, but if it's on, you have a go. The best time to attack for players like Arundell, Watson etc is attacking from deep in broken play. If they're flat out, they'll be hard to pull down. How many tries did Cullen score from deep? But I can imagine Borthwick pretty much ruling that out as an option. Kick downfield and apply pressure..... that might work against teams like Italy, but the ABs will be putting 40+ points on England if they play a kicking game.