Wales v England - 05/08/23 5:30 KO

[Becca]

Well I guess rhe first warm up game is the place to do it.

Well you are a glass half full kind of guy, aren't you ?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Yes but why. No other team from Tier one all the way to Tier three seems to have this issue when under seemingly minimal pressure.

I was watching USA-Romania on my laptop at the same time as the England game. Tier 2 will definitely have more errors in contact but almost no one drops the ball on a simple pass in open space.

"Right lads, I know we're three games out from the world cup but today we're off down to Piddlington RFC u5s to join in their "don't drop the ball" training"

Just do what we do here in the states for college rugby. People who played team sports can learn to tackle and the wrestlers can off in their little corner and fail to catch a ball for two and a half hours.

The level of the premiership is fine. The team just has no cohesive attack pattern and tries to run without looking at the ball.

 

[Saintjay]

Maybe SB is trying to pull a haribo style Eddie Jones mind trick.

"Alex, Zac, it's Stevie Bee maaate, I'm just f@cking with ya, your in maate, pack ya bags".

We live in hope.

 

[Zed]

Far bigger problems than this, but did anyone think - not for the first time IMO- that Freddie Steward lacked the necessary ground speed to deal with test match rugby?

Sure he's an aerial expert but I can't help but feel his weakness is exposed.

Not surprised to see a back three switch around

I think when I first saw him, I thought perhaps he was quicker than he looked, sometimes big guys look like they're running slow, but yeah he lacks the pace to play int FB. The reason why Folau and Cullen scored so many tries was because of their pace. Obviously been a bit simplistic saying your back 3 all should be quick, but if they're not it's a limiting factor. England, over the years have been quite happen to select players in the backs 10 - 15 that have just not had the pace needed to for international level. Mike Brown being a classic example. No idea how he got so many caps.

 

[Zed]

England have a got a pretty good path, as does Australia. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Australia and England could be a semi-final? So one of those two teams playing absolutely rank rugby could make the final...

 

[87Dreamer]

I think I've said this here before, but wouldn't it be glorious if Eddies Wallabies knocked England out the WC.
That smug face will be priceless

 

[Geordie]

Far bigger problems than this, but did anyone think - not for the first time IMO- that Freddie Steward lacked the necessary ground speed to deal with test match rugby?

Sure he's an aerial expert but I can't help but feel his weakness is exposed.

Not surprised to see a back three switch around

Would help if he had a wing pairing who had pace or aerial ability aswell. Malins is abother Goode..class club player poor international and he's not a winger and Coka showed he's just not what we hoped he would become.

 

[Geordie]

Well you are a glass half full kind of guy, aren't you ?

I generally am sadly that drivel yesterday dampened it a bit. But I've always thought if your gonna make all sorts of mistakes etc...do it in the friendlies and get them out your system.

I have a suspicion SB already knew half that side were not gonig to the world Cup and he just needed it confirmed, which most of them duly did.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think I've said this here before, but wouldn't it be glorious if Eddies Wallabies knocked England out the WC.
That smug face will be priceless

I'd almost rather he'd gone back to Japan. Cheika and Jones combining to send us home in the group stages would be delicious.

Can't read much into that in itself. Most of our big guns, such as they are, weren't playing. George (wrap him in cotton wool), Itoje, Chessum and Lawes will make the line out look very different for one.

Ludlam looked about the only one with any real energy or fight. Fair play to him, but he was standing out in a swamp of mediocrity.

Pro players shouldn't make the number of individual mistakes we saw yesterday. That's not a coaching thing, but maybe symptomatic of a scratch team plus the pressure of some players thinking they were still fighting for a spot and some realising there's a huge jump from the comfortable familiarity of the Prem.

Let's see what the next few weeks brings. All yesterday did was add further fuel to fire that the coaching team isn't having any kind of impact.

 

[higgik]

I bet a current day Jason Robinson would still run rings round coko.

And lots of them

 

[higgik]

I'm a massive cricket fan and I've absolutely loved the Ashes because I find the England cricket team engaging, I think they've got a squad full of characters and more importantly I love watching them play because of the style of cricket.

This England rugby team is the polar opposite. I've gave up my weekend to head down to Cardiff to watch that absolute pile of guff. I don't care if it's a glorified friendly it was diabolical, especially in the second half. We can't string three passes together without dropping the ******* ball.

A boring team full of boring players and a boring coach. Steve Borthwick could send a glass eye to sleep.

I'm sick to death of England rugby. 4 years of ****. Borthwick would be the first kernt I'd get rid of and Bill Sweeney wouldn't be far behind him.

I made my wife go to the local Irish bar to watch it rather than go to the local restaurant here in Spain.
How many points have I lost for that and I didnt even enjoy watching it!!!!

 

[higgik]

Yeah, you battered them so badly in the first half, they could only score 2 tries in the second half

There was some good in the first half, but it was telling that, at the beginning of the second, Smith went aerial twice from good midfield positions. It was as though the gameplan changed that allowed the Welsh to create pressure, that was not as much in the 1st half.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I made my wife go to the local Irish bar to watch it rather than go to the local restaurant here in Spain.
How many points have I lost for that and I didnt even enjoy watching it!!!!

Rookie mistake!

I went to the theatre instead and only caught up with it in the early hours. Would have been better served having a couple of hours extra kip.

 

[higgik]

I think when I first saw him, I thought perhaps he was quicker than he looked, sometimes big guys look like they're running slow, but yeah he lacks the pace to play int FB. The reason why Folau and Cullen scored so many tries was because of their pace. Obviously been a bit simplistic saying your back 3 all should be quick, but if they're not it's a limiting factor. England, over the years have been quite happen to select players in the backs 10 - 15 that have just not had the pace needed to for international level. Mike Brown being a classic example. No idea how he got so many caps.

English mentality is to pick players who stop the opposition first, rather than try to win.
Many commentators have suggested Steward at 12, where pure pace is not as important as acceleration.
Maybe Freeman at 15 would be better!!!

 

[higgik]

Would help if he had a wing pairing who had pace or aerial ability aswell. Malins is abother Goode..class club player poor international and he's not a winger and Coka showed he's just not what we hoped he would become.

Malins is good as the 2nd plamaker, like Goode does for Sarries. They are often the eyes for Farrell, which allows him to play far better.
Malins to 15 with Murley and Watson on wings for next match.

 

[Geordie]

English mentality is to pick players who stop the opposition first, rather than try to win.
Many commentators have suggested Steward at 12, where pure pace is not as important as acceleration.
Maybe Freeman at 15 would be better!!!

Arundell , Carpenter, Freeman might make that 15 spot more interesting next season.

Didn't Steward play 10 through the age groups...so 12 wouldn't be an issue. The big 12 we've bene looking for. Abs have moved Jordie Barrett to 12.

 

[higgik]

Arundell , Carpenter, Freeman might make that 15 spot more interesting next season.

Didn't Steward play 10 through the age groups...so 12 wouldn't be an issue. The big 12 we've bene looking for. Abs have moved Jordie Barrett to 12.

How about the back 3 being that next 6N.
Looks like we will be having a complete rebuild, so why not, all competent in the air, all quick and strong.
6N
15 Carpenter
14 Freeman
13 Lawrence
12 Steward
11 Freeman
10 Smith
9 Mitchell

 

[Jimbo]

Arundell , Carpenter, Freeman might make that 15 spot more interesting next season.

Didn't Steward play 10 through the age groups...so 12 wouldn't be an issue. The big 12 we've bene looking for. Abs have moved Jordie Barrett to 12.

ABs basics and general skill levels are superior throughout, I think with them that offers the flexibility to switch players around, with England not so much, more of a generic statement without specifically talking about Stewart's ability to move from FB. In terms of go forward (unpopular I know) but Daly offers a lot, pace on the outside some good running lines, defence can be a little questionable, then again none of that backline covered themselves in glory yesterday, Steward has to position himself perfectly or will be caught for pace every time and has been known to be slow on the Turn and BH would say.

 

[Geordie]

How about the back 3 being that next 6N.
Looks like we will be having a complete rebuild, so why not, all competent in the air, all quick and strong.
6N
15 Carpenter
14 Freeman
13 Lawrence
12 Steward
11 Freeman
10 Smith
9 Mitchell

The other thing of course is that we now have a few 12s coming through who might actually be good...

 

[Geordie]

ABs basics and general skill levels are superior throughout, I think with them that offers the flexibility to switch players around, with England not so much, more of a generic statement without specifically talking about Stewart's ability to move from FB. In terms of go forward (unpopular I know) but Daly offers a lot, pace on the outside some good running lines, defence can be a little questionable, then again none of that backline covered themselves in glory yesterday, Steward has to position himself perfectly or will be caught for pace every time and has been known to be slow on the Turn and BH would say.

Very true.

I do think if we're going with Steward at 15 you need some pace around him to cover these situations.

I don't want Malins or Cokasaniga anywhere near this squad now.

I understand the desire for a playmaker at 13 or on the wing..I'd genuinely prefer Daly to Malins. At least he has real pace.