England vs Wales - 12/08/23

[Reiser99]

Well this is why I kept my expectations low. I was in no way disappointed. Considering this was meant to be pretty much a full strength team for England it tells you all you need to know about where they are. Wales took offence to England outshitting them last week by outshitting England this week. Neither team will win the world cup and neither team are worth watching at the moment.

As for Farrell, he deserves a long ban and he's only got himself to blame.

 

[higgik]

Feel like Farrell is the ultimate yes man to the coaches,
Every coach who has ever been around him thinks he's the dogs ********, and I bet that's because he follows their plans to a T and gets everyone else buying into their ideas too
At Saracens he's got a gameplan fit for him, and the rest of the side also slots seamlessly into the gameplan, so it's very successful because he executes it perfectly

With England our gameplan is crap and he doesn't deviate because he's there to follow it and everyone else follows the captains lead

Don't think it's a fear thing, or anything, just a **** gameplan that we follow brainlessly

Can't remember his username (sorry!) but there was a Saracens fan on here yesterday, maybe day before, talking about England's gameplans and how he's shoehorning players in to his ideas rather than building ideas around the skillsets we have available

Yes, it was me.
Totally agree.
Seen it with football so often, tactics planbed and then players shoehorned into it.
Just watch them now, players are picked and then cone up with a plan.

 

[higgik]

Yes, it was me.
Totally agree.
Seen it with football so often, tactics planbed and then players shoehorned into it.
Just watch them now, players are picked and then cone up with a plan.

Also would add that for Sarries, other players are strong enough characters to change game plan.

 

[Scotty]

Nor am I yet.....however I do think if he's brought through right he can be the future. He'll get some good training at Racing aswell.

Did it say what he's been signed as? I cant help the feeling he is wasted on the wing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I cant help the feeling he is wasted on the wing.

He'd be better attacking from 15 but not sure he's got the hands or defence for it at this stage tbh,
Easing a young fullback in (oh matron) on the wing isn't unheard of

Then again playing him at 15 alongside Daly and Watson on the wings eases his 15 duties quite a lot as they could just play "back three" rather than wing/wing/fullback, and I wouldn't be against seeing that for England (vs Fiji?)

 

[dullonien]

Wft did I just watch? That Welsh pack were very poor, not sure any of them put their hand up! Couple of backs played well, Liam Williams obviously, but I was also impressed with Joe Roberts at 13, shame he didn't see more of the ball in space.

England are in real trouble though after that! If Farrell doesn't cop a long ban that rules him out of the WC then there's something wrong with the system. JvP didn't look great going off either.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Steward prob been England's form back for the past 2 years (Not hard)
He's best used as a crash ball 13 when it comes to attack.

He's 7 tries in 24 games.

George Ford showed his class that everyone knew he had when given sole charge of 10. He's been the form Prem 10 for some time.
It should be imo for the next game
9. Warr (Honestly way more upside to Mitchell as International potential, he's not as quick but has game compusre)
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Arundell
15. Steward
Got a good mix of playmakers, Physicality and Speed

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Will say with Chessum and Martin (Who played well despite knee looking sus) I think by next RWC England will have a cracking pair of locks who will compliment each other very well.

Honestly back row looked decent considering Lawes and Vunipola lack of game time, Earl complimented them well. I think Earl could work as a 8 with Curry at 7.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wft did I just watch? That Welsh pack were very poor, not sure any of them put their hand up! Couple of backs played well, Liam Williams obviously, but I was also impressed with Joe Roberts at 13, shame he didn't see more of the ball in space.

England are in real trouble though after that! If Farrell doesn't cop a long ban that rules him out of the WC then there's something wrong with the system. JvP didn't look great going off either.

Thought Basham did well when he came on. Dropped that pass which was high but should've caught it obviously. Other than that did more than Reffell but he won't get selected

 

[dullonien]

Thought Basham did well when he came on. Dropped that pass which was high but should've caught it obviously. Other than that did more than Reffell but he won't get selected

Always been a fan of Basham. Agree he did well. Those dropped balls are his big work on, as he often follows a moment of class with a knock on.

I thought Reffell was very poor today. Outmuscled by the impressive Earl and got on the wrong side of the ref. He's there for his work at the breakdown, but couldn't get close to a turnover all game.

Basham offers far more, and I think he'll make the squad now as he also covers 8, which, outside of Wainwright, is a real probpem position given Faletau's injury concerns. Gats was obviously hoping Plumtree could offer some cover, but not only did he go off injured today, but he was awful, totally out of his depth!

I knew Gatland should have included Morgan Morris and Jim Botham in the wider squad! Massive mistake imo.

 

[TopTen2003]

Crikey Gatland was livid in his interview wasn't he?! he really wanted to win at Twickers again as an underdog by the sounds of it.

Says it has "answered a few questions about some individuals"

Wales' Warren Gatland added: "I'm furious actually. I am hugely disappointed but it answered a few questions for us about a few individuals. The final quarter wasn't good enough, we should have won the game.

"It is just about some game management when we had them on the ropes and we just let them off the hook which is disappointing and answered a few questions. We gave away soft penalties at key moments, with the yellow card as well.

"I hate losing and we put ourselves into a position where we should have won. We capitulated in terms of accuracy and players knowing their roles.

"That was a game we should have won and we cost it ourselves. We need to be much better than we were today for next weekend (vs South Africa)."

 

[dullonien]

Few players who should have played themselves OUT of contention for the final 33 man squad:

Adam Beard. Just useless. He was the lineout captain today and it was a farce! Hopefully Gats finally sees what thr rest of us have been saying for a while now, the guy offers nothing.

Taine Plumtree. Injury may rule him out anyway, but he looked every bit as inexperienced as he is today. Good prospect, but needs gametime at senior level first.

Christ Tshiunza. Been really poor both games. Shame, as I was expecting a lot from him.

Tommy Reffell. Needed a big game to advance his cause, which didn't come, and with Morgan nailed on as both a starter and captain now, and Basham offering versatility across the backrow, I don't see how there's space for Reffell.

Owen Williams. This was his only chance I think. Probably a little unfair given the ball he had to work with today, but after Costellow's strong performance last week and Gats public love of Anscombe, Williams 'aint going to the WC!

There's a few others who struggled, like Tompkins, Francis, Lydiate; but lack of genuine alternatives means they're not out of it yet. Kieran Williams needs a start v SA to stake his claim, but Gats may punish him for getting himself isolated on the restart which led to Englands try. How much of that was Williams' fault? I dunno. Really hope he's given a crack next week.

Our options at 6 aren't looking great tbh, unless Faletau's fit to start with Wainwright shifting over. Botham should be there as a genuine blindside who can also cover 7 and 8!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Christ did that lovely hook shot offload for that nice break though. I thought he wasn't great last week but not bad off the bench. Agree with pretty much everything else though. Francis is dead weight like beard.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd also be very surprised if Reffell doesn't get selected. I just can't see him picking Basham. To small.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

We'll still have the silly ******** of rejigging most of the backline when Ford comes on.

Otherwise looks like a strong squad. Pace on the wings will never catch on though.

Oh hello past Danno.

 

[Noonz]

Just caught up on the game and thread comments.

Christ..

 

[kesh]

They've ****** off Slade for this centre partnership…. Is there a **** quota behind the schemes we don't know about?

 

[mkersyshull]

Thought in general, the forwards for England did okay (Think Earl put his hands up for a starting spot at either 7 or 8)
We just can't score tries. With Farrell's potential ban it could help with Ford at 10 (both tactically and in a leadership capacity as mentioned earlier with people not seeming to follow Farrell)
I do have a (possibly overly optimistic) hope that this result could bring the squad together and galvanise them some what.

On a different note, on the discussions about back 3 going forward I do think Freeman is someone that needs more of a chance

 

[Welsh Exile]

I need to watch the game back but I can't remember even having that many line outs in Englands 22 that we won. Just seemed a total shambles. It didn't even seem to be a thrower issue the whole lineout was a disorganised mess it was like we didn't even know what the calls were.

 

[Reiser99]

I need to watch the game back but I can't remember even having that many line outs in Englands 22 that we won. Just seemed a total shambles. It didn't even seem to be a thrower issue the whole lineout was a disorganised mess it was like we didn't even know what the calls were.