England v Wales

[RC]

I'm with you on that, Speedy.
I happy that Hook proved me wrong in that game - one of our stand out players.
I'm unhappy that Tom James keeps on consistently proving me right. Open your eyes gatland: he's the wrong choice for Cardiff Blues, let alone Wales!

 

[Meh]

Can Gatland please balls up and bring Peel into the line-up, accepting that Cooper is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard?

 

[Bluemoon]

Tom James isn't ready for the international stage yet. He's not clinical enough. Maybe one day, but for now he needs to be dropped.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Feb 7 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 6 2010, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dylan Hartley - 4. Good throwing in, but went backwards in posession, and part of a rubbish scrum.[/b]

You really do hate Northampton players, don't you. Hartley had the closest thing he's done to his normal club form when the pack finally functioned. Not perfect by any means, but to give him a 4 then Borthwick (of all people) 8 out of 10 is ridiculous.
[/b][/quote]

Can't be arsed to argue on this one, but you noticed the difference when Hartley went off and Thompson came on. And our front row really was abysmal yesterday. The number of times we were pinged in the scrums, against 1/3 of Wales' 1st choice front row, speaks volumes.

So if I criticise front row players when our scrum goes badly, it's fair to praise the 2nd row when the lineout goes well. Borthwick was excellent here, and as usual he made some great tackles around the park too.

There weren't any other Northampton players for me to criticise... and I've already said I'd like Lawes and Foden or Ashton to get some gametime against Italy. What's your point?

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 7 2010, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Feb 7 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 6 2010, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dylan Hartley - 4. Good throwing in, but went backwards in posession, and part of a rubbish scrum.[/b]

You really do hate Northampton players, don't you. Hartley had the closest thing he's done to his normal club form when the pack finally functioned. Not perfect by any means, but to give him a 4 then Borthwick (of all people) 8 out of 10 is ridiculous.
[/b][/quote]

Can't be arsed to argue on this one, but you noticed the difference when Hartley went off and Thompson came on. And our front row really was abysmal yesterday. The number of times we were pinged in the scrums, against 1/3 of Wales' 1st choice front row, speaks volumes.

So if I criticise front row players when our scrum goes badly, it's fair to praise the 2nd row when the lineout goes well. Borthwick was excellent here, and as usual he made some great tackles around the park too.

There weren't any other Northampton players for me to criticise... and I've already said I'd like Lawes and Foden or Ashton to get some gametime against Italy. What's your point?
[/b][/quote]

I personally thought Hartley had a good game. Stood in the centre a bit too much but went looking for work and made the metres. Turned sloppy ball into good ball a few times and deserves the plaudits he gets. The reason England did better in the scrums once Thompson came on was because Cole also came on, and it was obvious Wilson was carrying an injury, so that combined with Payne's shitness was always going to cause trouble.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Feb 7 2010, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 7 2010, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Feb 7 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 6 2010, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dylan Hartley - 4. Good throwing in, but went backwards in posession, and part of a rubbish scrum.[/b]

You really do hate Northampton players, don't you. Hartley had the closest thing he's done to his normal club form when the pack finally functioned. Not perfect by any means, but to give him a 4 then Borthwick (of all people) 8 out of 10 is ridiculous.
[/b][/quote]

Can't be arsed to argue on this one, but you noticed the difference when Hartley went off and Thompson came on. And our front row really was abysmal yesterday. The number of times we were pinged in the scrums, against 1/3 of Wales' 1st choice front row, speaks volumes.

So if I criticise front row players when our scrum goes badly, it's fair to praise the 2nd row when the lineout goes well. Borthwick was excellent here, and as usual he made some great tackles around the park too.

There weren't any other Northampton players for me to criticise... and I've already said I'd like Lawes and Foden or Ashton to get some gametime against Italy. What's your point?
[/b][/quote]

I personally thought Hartley had a good game. Stood in the centre a bit too much but went looking for work and made the metres. Turned sloppy ball into good ball a few times and deserves the plaudits he gets. The reason England did better in the scrums once Thompson came on was because Cole also came on, and it was obvious Wilson was carrying an injury, so that combined with Payne's shitness was always going to cause trouble.
[/b][/quote]

What he said.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meh @ Feb 7 2010, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can Gatland please balls up and bring Peel into the line-up, accepting that Cooper is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard?[/b]

Peel's out for three weeeks with a groin strain

 

[dullonien]

Still ****** off about that game and result. We were dire for 3/4 of that game. Our linout fell apart, and for me that's Gareth Williams' chance gone, Gatland needs to accept that if Williams can't throw in, what use is he? Bring in Hibbard/Owens into the squad, and send Williams back to the Blues.

We then move onto second row, Alun-Wyn Jones = idiot! It was pointless, and ultimately cost Wales the game. Charteris was also useless, if he can't perform well in the linout, again, what's the point of him being there? Bring Gough and possibly Jonathan Thomas into the second row, that offers grunt with Gough, and an out and out linout jumper in JT. Drop Alun-Wyn, he deserves to be, and hasn't performed well for quite a while anyway! Powell was inneffective again, Warberton needs to come in to offer yet another linout option, and support for Martyn Williams. Either that, or select a different second row, with Jon Thomas at 6.

Now we come to Cooper. Gatland's worst selection since taking charge of Wales. He was appalling, got caught time and time again at the base of rucks and threw away some of Wales' decent opportunities by kicking the ball away. Rees made a huge difference when he came on, Stephen Jones finally got decent passes, and he could start controlling the game. Jones wasn't all that great either, he ultimately gave that intercept pass which allowed Haskell to score. If he hadn't, it looked likely that Wales would have scraped a draw/win.

Centres were good. Jamie Roberts cleaned up alot of poor ball, and generally did all he could. Worked and tackled his arse off. Hook was immense in the second half. His try was one of the best I've seen in a while, went past Wilkinson like he wasn't there. Back three were generally poor. Byrne's kicking was dreadful, Shane didn't get into the match, and Tom James messed up that try!

We gifted England that win! They didn't even take their chances all that well (aprt from the last try). Their backline missfired again, and they were under the coch scrum time. I was however impressed with their second row and backrow. This win might give England some confidence, but they need to improve alot to challenge the likes of France.

As for Wales, some positives in that second half. Sort out the disipline, drop Gareth Williams, Charteris, Cooper, and Tom James, and remember how to jump in the linout, and we should improve hugely.

 

[bristol-iain]

Agree with pretty much all of that Dullonien, although I will ask how Charteris was supposed to perform in the line out when the hooker is doing a passable impression of an unmanned hosepipe on full power.

 

[Thingimubob]

Just realised that nobody's mentioned one of the funnier moments of the match - Shane Williams picking up Johnny Wilkinson Henson-on-Tait style and walking him over the touchline :lol: I laughed a lot at that, espically because it was one of the smallest guys on the pitch doing the picking up.
I hope a video of it popps up somewhere

 

[TVH11]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Feb 7 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just realised that nobody's mentioned one of the funnier moments of the match - Shane Williams picking up Johnny Wilkinson Henson-on-Tait style and walking him over the touchline :lol: I laughed a lot at that, espically because it was one of the smallest guys on the pitch doing the picking up.
I hope a video of it popps up somewhere [/b]

totally forgot about that hahahaha quite a funny moment (defo one positive from a welsh prospective)
In the end England were the more clinical side. When given opportunity at goal, JW aint gonna miss, and he punished us ah well next week i think there will be a few changes in the lineup hopefully Rees in at scrum half, Halfpenny on the wing ( Even tho Tom James's knock on "technically" wasn't a knock on) and possibly AWJ being punished for his stupid decision.
ah well bring on the Scots

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Feb 7 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just realised that nobody's mentioned one of the funnier moments of the match - Shane Williams picking up Johnny Wilkinson Henson-on-Tait style and walking him over the touchline :lol: I laughed a lot at that, espically because it was one of the smallest guys on the pitch doing the picking up.
I hope a video of it popps up somewhere [/b]

I didn't really notice that in the match, and when they said "Williams" i presumed Martyn, it was only seeing highlights today that i saw it :lol:

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Gatland should drop the following players for the next game:

-Alun Wyn Jones (Displine reasons)
-Tom James (Great club player, not good enough for Wales. Too many bad choices.)
-Gareth Cooper (No longer good enough for international Rugby. He's past it.)
-Gareth Williams (Poor lineout thrower, if good in the loose.)
-Andy Powell (He looked on the up in the autumn and for the Blues, but is begining to lose the ball in contact again.)
-Jamie Roberts (He didn't punch any holes or crush the centres as we all expected he would.)

The following players should come in in their places:

-Ian Gough (His experience is the key.)
-Leigh Halfpenny (I'd rather see Aled Brew, but at least Halfpenny isn't as thick as James, and can tackle unlike Phillips.)
-Richie Rees (The form Scrum-Half.)
-Huw Bennet/Matthew Rees (Much the same, but can throw.)
-Sam Warburton (Does more work around the field, and doesn't lose the ball all the time. Also more intellegent.)
-Andrew Bishop (I wouldn't mind Davies starting, but Bishop's defence is pheonimal, and he can pick good angles, too. In great form.)

I'd rather like to see Biggar in for Stephen, but I wouldn't mind either way, so long as they've got a Scrum-Half who will pass the ball to them.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TVH11 @ Feb 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

( Even tho Tom James's knock on "technically" wasn't a knock on)[/b]

That's fine, but he didn't even ground the ball properly, thus not giving us something decent to moan about. Other than his being an awful player.

 

[Meh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Feb 7 2010, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meh @ Feb 7 2010, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can Gatland please balls up and bring Peel into the line-up, accepting that Cooper is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard?[/b]

Peel's out for three weeeks with a groin strain
[/b][/quote]

Sorry I meant Richie Reese. Although Peel should be brought in at some point as well.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Feb 7 2010, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Gatland should drop the following players for the next game:

-Alun Wyn Jones (Displine reasons)
-Tom James (Great club player, not good enough for Wales. Too many bad choices.)
-Gareth Cooper (No longer good enough for international Rugby. He's past it.)
-Gareth Williams (Poor lineout thrower, if good in the loose.)
-Andy Powell (He looked on the up in the autumn and for the Blues, but is begining to lose the ball in contact again.)
-Jamie Roberts (He didn't punch any holes or crush the centres as we all expected he would.)

The following players should come in in their places:

-Ian Gough (His experience is the key.)
-Leigh Halfpenny (I'd rather see Aled Brew, but at least Halfpenny isn't as thick as James, and can tackle unlike Phillips.)
-Richie Rees (The form Scrum-Half.)
-Huw Bennet/Matthew Rees (Much the same, but can throw.)
-Sam Warburton (Does more work around the field, and doesn't lose the ball all the time. Also more intellegent.)
-Andrew Bishop (I wouldn't mind Davies starting, but Bishop's defence is pheonimal, and he can pick good angles, too. In great form.)

I'd rather like to see Biggar in for Stephen, but I wouldn't mind either way, so long as they've got a Scrum-Half who will pass the ball to them.[/b]

Don't you think that's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction? Roberts and Hook looked the most threatening and need time to build up a partnership if Hook is the long term solution at 13.

Andy Powell looked alright too in my opinion, and didnt make any glaring errors.

And Stephen Jones is one of the best 10s around in my view.

Other than that i pretty much agree.

 

[dullonien]

Roberts shouldn't be dropped. How much decent ball were the backs given to play with? Roberts did his best to clean up alot of very poor ball yesterday. An example of this was in the dying minutes, when Stephen Jones was thrown a poor pass and in turn gave Roberts a pass beind him, Roberts tried to go forward, but ultimately got turned over. If the linout functioned atall, maybe then we could have seen more of Roberts. If Hook can continue playing like that outside of him, Roberts will start getting the space he needs, and it could end up in a killer midfield!

Agree that it's kinda unfair on Charteris, what with Gareth Williams' poor throwing. But a couple of times Borthwick got up ahead of Charteris, this should not happen when were talking about a 6'9" player! He did put in a couple of decent tackles, but Gough puts in bigger and more frequent hits! I still think a linup of something like this is the way to go:

04 Ian Gough
05 Jonathan Thomas
06 Sam Warberton
07 Martyn Williams
08 Ryan Jones

That gives us lineout options of Jon Thomas, Warberton, Martyn Williams (has been a good option in the past) and Ryan Jones. It offers some aggression from Gough, and go forward from JT, Warberton and Jones. Warberton also gives us another scavanger on the field to halp Martyn Williams out.

@ali12. Agree with you about Roberts, Hook and Jones (although I'd give Biggar some gametime off the bench v Scotland). But I though Powell was average yesterday. He did some alright things, a nice offload and some powerful running, but he also coughed-up possetion on at least one occasion, and gave away an unescesary penalty. We need to improve our dicipline, that means dropping Powell. Use him as a impact sub, when the opposition have tired.

 

[TVH11]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Feb 7 2010, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TVH11 @ Feb 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

( Even tho Tom James's knock on "technically" wasn't a knock on)[/b]

That's fine, but he didn't even ground the ball properly, thus not giving us something decent to moan about. Other than his being an awful player.
[/b][/quote]

Totally agree with ya on that, just didn't wanna spend a whole page moaning about tom james (i could but wont), i'll leave other people do it

 

[dullonien]

Ok, Tom James deserves a little bit of critisism for not taking that opportunity, but there is waay to much crap directed towards him at the moment imo. Not many of Wales' backs performed well yesterday, due to very limited ball to play with. The one thing Tom James did do was offer himself in midfield, often coming off his wing to look for work. That missed try was an example of this, and he may not have grounded correctly, but if you look back at many tries in replace, they aren't grounded correctly, sometimes the ball doesn't even touch the ground. He should have caught the ball, but at least he was there in support! He is very raw, we all accept that, but he does offer something different to Shane Williams and Halfpenny, because he has some bulk. I don't mind him being dropped for next week, especially because Halfpeny offers a reliable long-range boot. But Tom James does have a bright future for Wales.

 

[RC]

Dull, you're often right about a lot of things in regards to welsh rugby, but here...here you are very wrong.
Tom James isn't just "raw" - he's not an international.
He offered himself in midfield a couple of times, but didn't take the ball on any effective angles;
He messed up "that opportunity";
He still thinks like he's a sprinter. You can't just pick up the ball and run straight...you're not forrest gump. He had a good opportunity, one on one with someone and he just tried running into him. I don't care if jonathan davies says coz he's left footed on the right wing...you've got to either step inside or try chipping over. Anythings' better than running straight into the tackler. You've got to be a pretty unique player to run over your defender (See lomu).
He deserves all the criticism he gets.
He's not clinical, he can't execute. He doesn't have a rugby brain.
Maybe a stint in the 7s squad could help him.