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England v Scotland, 02/02/13

I thought Brown played a decent game yesterday.

That said Stuart Hogg was the pick of either sides backs electric pace and lovely feet

I see people commenting on browns indecisinveness when Hogg came at him.

Hogg was not his man in the defensive alignment , it was the responsibility of the inside man to hunt to make the numbers , I believe he took. Bit of a block too and was a front rower and but still would definitely not blame Brown for it.
 
He dithered in his 22 when he should have put boot to ball and it nearly resulted in a Scottish try. Very poor for a player who normally plays 15
 
Like the rest of the England team? Extremely safe? I'm sorry I can't agree. England are far from the finished product but are looking to play in an expansive style , constantly looking to shift the ball even when close to contact, offloading often making frequent line breaks. It's similar to the way the All-blacks play and sure we haven't got their skills, but we're having a good go at it. Englands back 3 doesn't appear to have the right balance, definitely agree, and Goode to me had a bit of a shocker, but Brown is a live-wire and can create something from nothing. Ashton is a different sort of player but his try-scoring ability is better than anyone in the championship besides perhaps Fofana. That's not a fact you an really argue with. Now look at England's players, many of whom have only recently been capped. Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Cole, T. Youngs... those are all modern forwards who don't just fit into the stereotypes of their position...they have skills you don't necessarily expect from the positions they play. It's a more versatile pack than Irelands. I can possibly see more your point in the backs, with the likes of Brad Barritt. But whats safe about Ben Youngs? Tuilagi, Twelvetrees? Those two are not just big players but also extremely skilful ones. And whats safe about the way England are trying to play, the 1-15 game?

I know you weren't intending a comparison but I can't not: Ireland scored some nice tries but are nonetheless one of the more conservative teams in the championship, thankfully they are an extremely well drilled team with brilliant basics and very skillful. Kidneys approach to rugby is quite prosaic really, it's a style that few teams still try and play, but there's something hopeless predictable about the choke-and-hold, and Reddan/Murray on the loop. Irelands backline is better in that it is more established, far more functional but that's helped by the fact that Ireland can keep entire club partnerships intact. Farrell is no Sexton but he attacked the gainline yesterday in a way few of us have seen before.

Anyway, just a bit confused by your comment...personally I think England should be applauded for playing a brand of rugby which is not about individuals but about what those individuals can do as a team.

Re Billy, he's definitely not ready for a game as big as Ireland away, guys. If Morgan is out which would be a big shame ,I can't look past Haskell to come in and do a job at 8. The challenge will be to insofar as possible, stop O'Brien, Healy, Heaslip et al from getting too far over the gain-line. Haskell, Wood and co can do that if anyone can


Pretty much agree with all of that....my changes should be limited to Brown (only as Foden is not on form apparently) for Goode at 15 with a proper winger coming in and Care for Ben Youngs. As I said at the time, Goode was ponderous, missed the one tackle he was asked to make and that led to a try and his running was less than average. Youngs was admittedly better than he has been but I would still opt for Care. Haskell will play if Morgan is injured. On the basis of yesterday's performances, Ireland will find it tough to stay with England who looked in charge at all times after the first 10 minutes but made too many mistakes (the only reason Scotland got any points at all!) in their quest to be adventurous and were somewhat weakened by too many substitutes just because everyone deserves a cap these days!
 
I think there is an element of picking a side to not get beat rather than go out and win the game in Englands backline. I feel the pack is great for attacking rugby and we should be a bit more ambitious with our selection policy. I think Youngs and Care are both very good players, I am happy with either. At 10, even though Farrell played and kicked well vrs Scotland, I would like Burns to start. 36 was my MOTM to be honest, hopefully that one performance will oust Barritt for the rest of the tournament and in future. Tuilagi is amazing, he is the man who does things nobody else can. Personally I believe he will become an all-time great for England. The two wingers are the only difficult decision, I would go with Ashton and Sharples personally. I don't understand why Sharples has been dumped out of the picture since the AI. As for fullback, it is clear to me the heirarchy should be Foden > Brown. I think it is harsh to judge Brown on the wing, he is a very good 15.
As for who stood out vrs Scotland, I think Launchbury, Morgan, Youngs (Ben), Farrell and TT. Lawes did great when he came on also.
 
Re Billy, he's definitely not ready for a game as big as Ireland away, guys. If Morgan is out which would be a big shame ,I can't look past Haskell to come in and do a job at 8. The challenge will be to insofar as possible, stop O'Brien, Healy, Heaslip et al from getting too far over the gain-line. Haskell, Wood and co can do that if anyone can

Hasn't Haskell been going to No.6 an Wood going to No.8 when Morgon goes off? If Morgan is out, I'd like to see Lawes brought in an Wood moved to No.8. But yea will probably be Haskell.
 
Sorry to be so dumb, but who the **** is 36?
 
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I do think that Lancaster is looking to bring proper attacking wingers/FB's, but I think he feels that the current prospects are not quite ready atm.
I think that's why they are looking at Wade, May, Biggs, Eastmond et al in the Saxons, and have Strettle in the EPS as a safe option until they feel one of those lot is ready.

Anyone else think that Brown would make a good RL player if he was a bit bigger?
 
Sorry to be so dumb, but who the **** is 36?

Billy Twelvetrees.

While he was at Leicester, Geordan Murphy gave him that nick-name because Twelvetrees in an Irish accent is "twelve threes".
 
Anyone else think that Brown would make a good RL player if he was a bit bigger?

You mean like Jason Robinson big? Hopefully, like Robinson, moving Brown from wing to full back will be for the better. Not that I'm saying Brown is the new Jason Robinson... ( *sticks mail on an heavy armour on ).
 
No, like "average RL build" big, which would be a bit closer to 15 stone.
Dude is not particularly quick, but almost always breaks a tackle or two.
 
England News

The following players will report back to the England camp at Pennyhill Park tomorrow (Monday) night ahead of Sunday's RBS 6 Nations match against Ireland at the Aviva Stadium in Dublin (3pm).


Ben Morgan (ankle) is being treated by the England medical team and an update will be given by Head Coach Stuart Lancaster on Monday.

England Senior training squad (31)


Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Freddie Burns will attend Pennyhill Park tomorrow for assessment by the England medical team as part of his joint ongoing treatment programme with Gloucester Rugby.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scotland News

Scotland blindside flanker Alasdair Strokosch will see a specialist surgeon on Tuesday to decide if he can play any further part in this year’s RBS 6 Nations Championship.
Strokosch (Perpignan) had to retire injured early in yesterday’s Calcutta Cup match at Twickenham.
Scotland team doctor James Robson said: “It would seem he has a fractured orbit (area around the eye) but, as ever with such collision-type injuries, they can take time to settle. He will be examined by Mr Martin Paley, a maxillary facial specialist at Spire Murrayfield Hospital on Tuesday, to determine the extent of the injury and any recovery schedule.â€

In addition to Strokosch, a number of other Scotland forwards will require medical assessment over the next few days. Hooker Dougie Hall (knee), back-row forwards David Denton (knee) and Johnnie Beattie (ankle) will be under the care of physiotherapists Paul McGinley and Stephen Mutch.
The Scotland squad reassemble in Edinburgh tonight. At this stage, with medical evaluation still ongoing with the Scotland A squad, 13 players will be added to the 23 who were on match-day duty yesterday.
Hooker Pat MacArthur, back-rower Robert Harley and full-back Peter Murchie (all Glasgow Warriors) together with Edinburgh Rugby lock Grant Gilchrist had all travelled with the main party to Twickenham.
Peter Horne, the Glasgow Warriors centre, will return to camp having been ruled out of the England game due to a thumb injury.
Eight players are promoted from the Scotland A squad following their 13-9 win over England Saxons at Newcastle on Friday â€" namely props Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors) and Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), hooker Steve Lawrie (Edinburgh Rugby), back-rower Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), scrum-half Sean Kennedy (Glasgow Warriors), stand-off Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby) and wings Nikki Walker (Worcester Warriors) and Duncan Taylor (Saracens).
 
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Ben Morgan is out of the Ireland game with a twisted ankle.
 
Has Billy Vunipola only just been called up to England?

I'm really happy with our pack at the minute. Rowntree has always been impressive, and it's even better now that the squad selections in the pack are good. Only change I would make is to bring Wood in for Vunipola. I like the idea of a Wood-Hartley-Wilson bench for a potential late-game penalty-winning scrummaging unit.

Half-backs and centers resembling something good. Outside backs need improvement though. Brown is not a winger. I don't doubt he's got talent and admit he does good things even in games where he plays on the wing, but he could do those same things at fullback without any of the defensive liabilities he brings on the wing. For example, for the Sean Maitland try (after being gassed by Hogg down the left wing, where he drifts to Maitland too fast), as the Scotland backline swing the ball over to Brown's wing, as a winger Brown had to drift into the corner if possible. Instead, Grant carries forward, gets tackled 2m away from the line, and Brown brings himself into the ruck instead of guarding the blindside he should be responsible for. It left Maitland a very easy run in.

Another example - when Brown plays fullback his kicks come from the middle of the field and his big boot means he can drill the ball for touch, and he only needs to run down the middle of the field and play his team onside to get help in defending the return. Kicking from the wing gives a much sharper angle to work with and you generally have to keep it in-field. You should only kick a ball as far as you'll be able to chase to when it lands. If you kick the ball 60m, but can only make 40m by the time it lands, it gives the opponents a chance to run most of that remaining 20m and also line up a counterattack. A well-timed kick has you within 10m as the ball comes down and doesn't give the opponent any time to get any kind of speed in running the ball back. In the run up to the Maitland try when Hogg gassed Brown down the left wing, it came about because Brown's kick down the left wing was done at a low trajectory and Brown's pace and lack of awareness to chase that kick left Hogg and Maitland in ~30m of space to run the ball back with.

If you're willing to play a player with defensive flaws, might as well just go full-out and play Varndell or Wade. Or, you know, Sharples. It's unfair that he got dropped after one game for a couple of defensive flaws whereas Brown keeps his place there. He doesn't have the pace, and he's still very far off the awareness needed for a wing. Given time, Abendanon could make a decent shift from fullback to wing. But we have a lot of wingers, why do we need to convert fullbacks!? Biggs or Monye would be decent selections now. Strettle would be better than Brown. Come the Summer, JSD, May and Benjamin could come into contention. Brown is a good strike runner, and Goode isn't needed as long as we have Twelvetrees instead of Barritt, so Brown takes over at fullback.
 
If Morgan is out this leaves England exposed at No.8. I wonder if he'll take a chance on Billy Vunipola at 8 ?
 
Really disappointing with that - I thought Morgan was very impressive on Saterday :(

If Morgan is out this leaves England exposed at No.8. I wonder if he'll take a chance on Billy Vunipola at 8 ?

Would love SL to take a chance with Vinpola to start - but I think its more likely to be Haskell at 8, and Waldrum up to bench.
 
No way should Vunipola start vs Ireland in Dublin on his first cap.
I'd start Haskell with Billy on the bench. Though it's way more likely to be Waldrom (either starting or benching).
 
No way should Vunipola start vs Ireland in Dublin on his first cap.
I'd start Haskell with Billy on the bench. Though it's way more likely to be Waldrom (either starting or benching).

This.But I wonder whether Haskell or Wood should be at 8. Seeing as apparently they switched when Haskell came on. I'd probably go for the Hask at 8.
 
J'nuh, I agree with most of your post there, but no way would I blame him for not taking Hogg in that kick chase - he was the inside defence's man, it's not Brown's fault they were nowhere near (they were in line); the kick chase still remains a problem. I want Brown at full-back for this, Goode was poor, Brown is a full-back who did good things. Probably won't get it though.

Mods, can we move to thread for this week's games? Most of the discussion appears to be about selection for it.
 

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