England v Scotland, 02/02/13

[McTallshort]

Happy for Haskell and Wood to share Morgans duties,no need to panic yet........

 

[Peat]

J'nuh, I agree with most of your post there, but no way would I blame him for not taking Hogg in that kick chase - he was the inside defence's man, it's not Brown's fault they were nowhere near (they were in line); the kick chase still remains a problem. I want Brown at full-back for this, Goode was poor, Brown is a full-back who did good things. Probably won't get it though.

Mods, can we move to thread for this week's games? Most of the discussion appears to be about selection for it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mods, can we move to thread for this week's games? Most of the discussion appears to be about selection for it.

Yup!
Game threads will go up today, going to the gym now but will sort them when I return

 

[ratsapprentice]

Who are our prospects (long term) for the second Tighthead position?
As has already been said Wilson is a more than competent scrummager and he rarely makes mistakes, whilst not making a big impact, so he's fine in the mean time.

Kyle Sinkler, Kieran Brookes?

I really would hate to see Waldrom in the 23.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kieran Brookes looked good for Saxons last week. Sinkler looks good at age grade but will have to see whether he makes the step up - he's huge, which counts for a lot in u20s rugby.
Henry Thomas is highly rated by the England management, and is fantastic in the loose, but needs work on his scrummaging.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Who are our prospects (long term) for the second Tighthead position?

Phil Swainston is another, and is now in the Saxons.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm fairly confident Sinkler will be able to step up, he looks in great shape for a prop his size, at his age.
Definitely helped by the fact that he's at Quins.
The door seems to be wide open for a young guy to really put his hand up next season.

What's good to see is that there aren't that many "fat-boys" coming through, which means that they don't have to spend a whole season getting in shape, then spending the next couple of years getting into peak condition.
Hopefully it's a signal that the grey haired rugby fraternity has shed some of it's naivety on the subject of conditioning, and apparent fear of developing athleticism.

 

[kesh]

Henry Thomas is highly rated by the England management, and is fantastic in the loose, but needs work on his scrummaging.

Think the Sharks have a rough diamond in Thomas. Still needs alot of work in the scrum, yet 6.2" 21yrs an still growing from 17+ stone, could come in handy one day.

 

[Peat]

Who are our prospects (long term) for the second Tighthead position?
As has already been said Wilson is a more than competent scrummager and he rarely makes mistakes, whilst not making a big impact, so he's fine in the mean time.

Kyle Sinkler, Kieran Brookes?

I really would hate to see Waldrom in the 23.

Our long term options to me

Henry Thomas (Sale) - Fantastic in the loose, is growing as a scrummager, only worry is how injury prone he is. He started a lot of games very young for a prop, and I'm wondering whether that mightn't hurt him long term, as he's shipped a lot of injuries. Lancaster clearly likes him and if he can stay fit, it's a matter of when and not if he gets caps.

Shaun Knight (Glaws) - Think he's injured at the moment as he missed the Saxons games, but I've been impressed with what I've seen. He's playing a lot of games, looks strong in the scrum, and gets through a good amount of defensive work.

Will Collier (Quins) - Another one who's shipped a lot of injuries early, finally getting some regular gametime and looks decent, good carrier. Has an issue though in...

Kyle Sinckler (Quins) - Still very young, might be a while before he comes to the fore, but he's huge and mobile and has looked very good for the U20s

Phil Swainston (Wasps) - One of the older of these guys, moved to Wasps this season and got a lot of positive comment, has really strengthened their scrum

Fraser Balmain (Tigers) - Is going to force Brookes out of Leicester. Did very well against Corbs in his first LV game. Very highly vaunted at the moment.

Kieran Brookes (Tigers) - Hard to judge, he's been injured a lot and moving to Leicester looks a bad move in retrospect. Hopefully he learned plenty from Cole and Castro, time is still on his side and he's a huge lump who's useful in the loose, but right now looks off the pace.

I'd say those are the main contenders, Kane Palma-Newport and Ethan Waller might become involved but both are a little below the radar at the moment.

Plenty of choice there, my money would be on Thomas and Knight to challenge Wilson soonest. One big worry is that out of 7 names, 3 have had chronic injury problems, including the 2 most experienced guys. Really not sure starting props as young as they have been doing is a good move. Fingers crossed that as their frames hit fuller maturity they become more resilient and no lasting damage has been done.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

From what I've read on the Tigers board Balmain is no great shakes - though that might just be (/probably is) them overreacting to the Scarlets loss.

 

[j'nuh]

Don't discount Doran-Jones or Harden. Neither will be world-class internationals, but they may serve as a good bridge between generations and a decent third-choice.

I know that some might be upset about this, but another option available to us soon is Hoani Tui. I think he qualifies for residency in the summer. He keeps Craig Mitchell out of the XV at Exeter and is a good scrummager - short and stocky and able to use his low center of gravity to take on those who scrummage high.

Agreed with Peat as far as the younger ones go. Knight and Thomas are the next in line.

 

[Teh Mite]

PDJ on current form is far more a liability then a weapon. You can normally bank on him starting your team with a 6-point deficit based on this season.

 

[Peat]

j'nuh - Looking at the loosehead situation, I don't think Lancaster is in the mood for such things, or Nick Wood would be collecting England caps this Six Nations. Besides, Wilson is such an option already. PDJ and Harden might get a few more caps if there's an injury situation, but I'd expect them to go straight to the youngsters asap.

As for Tui - haven't watched much of him, can't comment.

Olyy - The Tigers fans I talk to have plenty of praise; the Leicester boards can be mildly hysterical in that I've noticed... either way, he's a year or two from being a serious option. But could be watch this space.

 

[ratsapprentice]

PDJ on current form is far more a liability then a weapon. You can normally bank on him starting your team with a 6-point deficit based on this season.

Have to agree, he was also completely anonymous in the Saxons v Scotland A game.
Maybe he'll do better at Quins.... doubt it though tbh.

I've never heard of that Tui fella before, but he's 28 and been capped by the NZ Maori. Unless he's about to usurp Cole, do not want.

 

[Teh Mite]

He should do okay in the Quins pack (scrum wise). If Marler can, anyone can.

In loose play though, only he can stop behaving like a brainless porn-cameraman.

 

[B10]

Will Fraser has been called up as cover for Morgan.

Agree with other posts that it would be nice to see Billy Vunipola on the bench instead of Waldrom. Surely it's between those two. Can't see Fraser/Kvesic making the bench.

Edit to add: Just seen the ref for the Ireland game is Jerome Garces. I've never heard of him, any opinions?

 

[ratsapprentice]

In loose play though, only he can stop behaving like a brainless porn-cameraman.

Wasn't he the subject of the camera?

I could potentially see Kvesic making the bench instead of Waldrom, he's used as a 6/8 hybrid like Haskell inst he?
I would much rather have Vunipola on if he's over his injury though.

 

[Patchey]

Will Fraser has been called up as cover for Morgan.

Agree with other posts that it would be nice to see Billy Vunipola on the bench instead of Waldrom. Surely it's between those two. Can't see Fraser/Kvesic making the bench.

Edit to add: Just seen the ref for the Ireland game is Jerome Garces. I've never heard of him, any opinions?

I've seen a couple of columns suggesting Wood plays 8, as he did when Morgan went off on Saturday, with Robshaw and Haskell starting flankers. Seemed to work fairly well against Scotland, although it was pretty late and a lot of the graft had been done by the time the change was made. If this is the case Kvesic to start on the bench? Fraiser is just there for familiarisation with the EPS.

Garces refed the England/Italy game last year.

 

[j'nuh]

Play for years without an openside under MJ and now we have Wood, Robshaw, Kvesic and Fraser who play the role for their clubs in the EPS. I think it's obvious that the current management like a guy who can make the turnovers - gives me hope for a Kvesic cap. (Although if we are playing a Haskell-Wood-Robshaw backrow, a specialist 8 would be nice. I still like Waldrom.)

 

[Saintjay]

Seems Lancaster is looking at Wood starting at eight with Robshaw and Haskell on the flanks.