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England v New Zealand

Yep I guess I agree with nearly everyones posts.

All Blacks just played better collectively. Even the All Black wingers were heavily involved, no standing around looking pretty from them. Gear, Rococoko and Toeava got in there, good games from all of them. Actually I thought all the ABs did well.

I like the looks of Foden, Hape, Easter and Youngs. Also I like the running Rugby England were playing, I didnt expect them to do that and they recycled well. England Rugby is in good stead at the moment.

Good game both teams.
 
Might as well do some ratings for England while I wait for the Ireland game:

Sheridan: 7/10 Scrummaged well for England, won a couple of penalties in the second half, made some useful carries to keep England on the front foot. Considering he's been out of test match rugby since the 2009 Six Nations, an encouraging return - a marked improvement on Tim 'walking penalty' Payne.

Thompson: 6/10 Played his part at scrum-time, slightly erratic with his throwing (his main advantage over Hartley) but commited well to breakdowns, made valuable tackles and a couple of decent carries. Thought Hartley improved England when he came on though, as is undoubtedly the future.

Cole: 8/10 Scrummaged Woodcock off the park throughout the game, hit each breakdown, made a few carries (even found himself in midfield on a couple of occasions). The best scrummager in the England squad at the age of 23. Proves what a player Castro is that this guy doesn't start for the Tigers.

Lawes: 7/10 Athletic in the lineout, made some fantastic tackes, hit every ruck first, carried strongly, very encouraging performance from the young man.

Palmer: 7/10 I think Barnes said he made 13 tackles in the 60 minutes he was on. Understated but effective, marshalled the lineout quite well with Lawes, proving a good compliment to Lawes in the second row.

Croft: 7/10 Not as devastatingly destructive as he can be, but contributed in every area of the game - what a lineout forward he is.

Moody: 6/10 Chucked himself at each kick, was just about the only England player on the kick-chase. Worth his place in the team though, i reckon. At least until Rees sorts out his injury problem.

Easter: 9/10 Wow. Hugely impressive from the lumbering, slow, podgy 8. Made a huge amount of carries, and seemed to be the real leader on the pitch for England (quick tap was evident). Kept going for the full 80, and proved all of his doubters wrong. Really, really impressive performance from a very good player. Provides a good link between forwards and backs.

Youngs: 8/10 No doubt an international scrum-half. Was telling that when Care came on England looked less effective. Super player, kept the All Blacks on their toes around the rucks with his short bursts and his rapport with Flood will be key for England in the run up to RWC 2011.

Flood: 8/10 Aside from one missed touch, he kicked impeccibly from hand, finding really long touches throughout the game. Although he stood too deep occasionally, brought the outside backs into it well. No doubt worth his place over Wilkinson given his last four games for England (though i still feel Wilkinson is worth being in the 22 simply to kick the goals in the last 20 of a match).

Cueto: 5/10 Solid but underwhelming. Lost even more pace since the summer, and although he was one of England's best players last Autumn, i think England have moved up a gear since then. With players like Ojo, Strettle, Banahan and Armitage all knocking on the door, I can't see him keeping his place for the Six Nations.

Hape: 6/10 Same as Cueto really. With players knocking on the door behind him can't see him keeping his place unless he improves his performances. Possibly hindered by Tindall alongside him, but needs to do more to impress me - he's not even Bath's first choice 12. If England want someone to provide Ashton and Foden with good attacking ball, the Johnson should pick Barkley for England at 12 every day of the week, he's the best passer in the Premiership.

Tindall: 5/10 Okay in defence by his standards, but by many others' he had a good day in that aspect. Looked sluggish with ball in hand and lacked confidence. Like I said earlier, if there's someone pacier and more creative alongside him he's worth his place, like Hape. What we've learned is that a Hape/Tindall combination is far too negative.

Ashton & Foden: 8/10 Might as well put these too together, they were born to play international rugby. Look like veterans of the side, and are developing into a hugely effective and confident partnership. The way forward for England.

Subs:

Hartley: 7/10 Dynamic and strong on the carry, much improved lineout, didn't hinder the scrum.

Here's my evaluation ... England

Sheridan: 1
Thompson: 1
Cole: 1
Lawes: 1
Palmer: 1
Croft: 1
Moody: 1
Easter: 1
Youngs: 1
Flood: 1
Cueto: 1
Hape: 1
Tindall: 1
Ashton & Foden: 1
Subs:
Hartley: 1

All Blacks:

Woodcock: 1
Mealamu: 1
Franks: 1
Thorn: 1
Whitelock: 1
Kaino: 1
Macaw: 1
Read: 1
Mathewson: 1
Carter: 1
Gear: 1
Nonu: 1
SBW: 1
Rocokoco: 1
Mils: 1

Subs:

Toeava: 1
Donald:: 10 ... He had is best game on tour in my opinion, the coaching staff should be commended in their use of him in this match :p

... Now lets see ... that's 16 points for the English, and 26 points for the All Blacks :D

Seriously though, I thought it was a good hard test match that could have gone either way ... congrats to the All Blacks and England
 
Good performance from England but a few teething holes in defence (mainly the centre of midfield) and a bit of a lack in creativity (mainly in midfield) combined with some dodgy handling at the wrong moments stopped us from winning.

Hmm. I'm not sure I made my point clear, so I'll basically say the midfield was a gaping black hole of suck at some points and average at best at others.

Also thought that Youngs and Flood while excellent generally did have a few mistakes... Youngs' decisions weren't always that great and neither was his service, and Flood's kicking left a little to be desired... so maybe excellent is too strong...

NZ probably should have won by more but a fair few errors chucked in there held them back.

edit: That Whitelock boy looks good.
 
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Good game from England in the 2nd half. The ABs played very average in the 2nd half, but were good enough with 14 men in the end.

Really liked Youngs, the front row for England.

Roks and Gear should definitely be our wings. I think the Ma'a/SBW pairing was bad, provided nothing for us. If they want to continue to experiment with SBW, have Conrad there. I think he'd learn more from Conrad )overall) in rugby than from Ma'a.

Carter ran a good show once again. Was not impressed with Mils' kicking (short kicking - apart from 1).

I felt each individual for the ABs played reasonable, at least. But let each other down with scrappy play in the second half.

Oh, and England didn't deserve a sniff with that BS try, as smartcooky pointed out. Simply terrible. I don't get how touch judges continue to miss those calls against us in the NH.


EDIT:

Whitelock was impressive too. Definitely should start/blood him for the future.
 
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Cole: 8/10 Scrummaged Woodcock off the park throughout the game, hit each breakdown, made a few carries (even found himself in midfield on a couple of occasions). The best scrummager in the England squad at the age of 23. Proves what a player Castro is that this guy doesn't start for the Tigers.
Not strictly true, they alternate each game.
 
Messy game from New Zealand, should have done better to Certainly England didn't get the domination in the scrum they were after, but they looked pretty solid.

The All Blacks forwards were consistant with their form. Woodcock packed a strong scrumrucks.

Lolololol ha ha I'm sorry but Sheridan, cole, Thompson, and hartley destoryed the nz scrum we got penalty after penalty in out favour woodcock could not have had a great scrummaging game since nz gave away 4 scrummaging penaltys!
 
Lolololol ha ha I'm sorry but Sheridan, cole, Thompson, and hartley destoryed the nz scrum we got penalty after penalty in out favour woodcock could not have had a great scrummaging game since nz gave away 4 scrummaging penaltys!

So the England pack destroyed our scrum but was dominated in every other facet of the game?. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
Lolololol ha ha I'm sorry but Sheridan, cole, Thompson, and hartley destoryed the nz scrum we got penalty after penalty in out favour woodcock could not have had a great scrummaging game since nz gave away 4 scrummaging penaltys!

When you start a comment with "lolololol", i disregard everything that comes after that point..
 
Lolololol ha ha I'm sorry but Sheridan, cole, Thompson, and hartley destoryed the nz scrum we got penalty after penalty in out favour woodcock could not have had a great scrummaging game since nz gave away 4 scrummaging penaltys!

As someone who plays in the front row, I can tell you that the penalties given to the All Blacks were guess work at best. Please try and type like you're not an idiot.
 
The All Black foward pack isn't in too bad a position. The main problem going into 2012 will be establishing the wc backline. It should be: Weepu, Carter, Nonu, Williams, Gear, Jane, Muliaina. With Mattewson, Fruen and Slade and as cover.

Smith won't get a look in after SBW establishes a foothold, Rokocoko is over the hill, Toeava is a waste of space, Cowan's too slow and Stephen Donald is Stephen Donald.
 
Smith is one of the best 13s around and SBW is a 12.

Smith is only good with Nonu inside him. That's why he's there. And even then he's just a safe player, there's nothing all that great about him - unlike the potential granted with Williams.

The promising thing for the All Blacks about having Sonny Bill in the framework now is that both he and Nonu have exactly the same style of play. They're damaging runners with an uncanny ability to offload. Despite the good relationship Nonu has with Smith atm, I think he's been missing a powerful player who can run off him (and set him up) the way Sonny Bill can.

Williams played at 13 against England with Nonu inside. All in all it doesn't matter that much.
 
Smith is only good with Nonu inside him. That's why he's there. And even then he's just a safe player, there's nothing all that great about him - unlike the potential granted with Williams.

The promising thing for the All Blacks about having Sonny Bill in the framework now is that both he and Nonu have exactly the same style of play. They're damaging runners with an uncanny ability to offload. Despite the good relationship Nonu has with Smith atm, I think he's been missing a powerful player who can run off him (and set him up) the way Sonny Bill can.

Williams played at 13 against England with Nonu inside. All in all it doesn't matter that much.

Thats the problem Nonu and Williams are far too similar whereas Nonu and Smith make a far better combination. Smith is intelligent, snakey, defence organising, and mr consistent. Nonu won't ever be any of those but thats why his game along with Smiths make for a good combination as Nonu is all power, linebreaking, offloading, and has got a good passing game. Two similar players don't make for a world beating combo just ask Nonu and Umaga.
 
Thats the problem Nonu and Williams are far too similar whereas Nonu and Smith make a far better combination. Smith is intelligent, snakey, defence organising, and mr consistent. Nonu won't ever be any of those but thats why his game along with Smiths make for a good combination as Nonu is all power, linebreaking, offloading, and has got a good passing game. Two similar players don't make for a world beating combo just ask Nonu and Umaga.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it to say it won't work (or work exceptionally well) They seemed to gel resonable well this morning which is promising given the pressure they were put under by the rush defence and the fact they had hadn't played together before. Their effort in defence was almost sound. Sonny Bill was farily consitant too for a debutant in a very tough game. Time will tell I spose.
 
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Smith is only good with Nonu inside him. That's why he's there. And even then he's just a safe player, there's nothing all that great about him - unlike the potential granted with Williams.

The promising thing for the All Blacks about having Sonny Bill in the framework now is that both he and Nonu have exactly the same style of play. They're damaging runners with an uncanny ability to offload. Despite the good relationship Nonu has with Smith atm, I think he's been missing a powerful player who can run off him (and set him up) the way Sonny Bill can.

Williams played at 13 against England with Nonu inside. All in all it doesn't matter that much.

Nonsense. Conrad Smith will be one of the first names on the teamsheet next year..
 
If Williams displaces anyone before the world cup it will be Nonu, but I'd be suprised if that happened. Nonu and Williams did pretty good, everything considered but I'm looking forward to seeing a Williams/Smith midfield with Nonu off the bench as he can cover the centres/wing. Funny how the centres are looking good all of a sudden with Williams in the picture and Fruen looking good. McAlistar is probably starting to wonder why he came back.
 
During the game SBW had some glimpse of brilliancy but for the rest he didn't do that much. I know it was his first game on this level but alto Smith hasn't got the same power as SBW he is more involved in the game ( meaning having the ball more often) and creating more opportunities.
 
I'm still not sure about Williams playing 2nd five at test level at this point in time. As good as he is he doesn't yet have the technical skills or the experience to be Carter's support player in rush games such as the one we saw against England. He still has a somewhat rugby league mentality which is why centre would be more suited for a player of his style. Although he will obviously develop what he needs to learn with Carter and Fruen next year (you would hope).

Nonu and Williams went very well, I don't see the same happening with Williams and Smith for the reasons above. I'm certainly not doubting Smith's ability but without Nonu his game is very different. Which is the point I'm trying to make. I think it will be a matter of Nonu-Williams or Nonu-Smith depending on how the combinations go.
 
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