England squad for SA tour

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, Fourie's injured. Did his shoulder vs Ireland over the summer and then almost straight after coming back he tore his pectoral muscle putting him out for the rest of the season.
Apparently Lancaster told Fourie, when he first got the job, he intended on taking him to SA, so gutted for him (and us) really.

 

[big ginger 8]

What do people think the chances of Wade starting are? Would love to see him burn Habana.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Slim to none.
I think he'll start vs Barbarians, and probably the first midweek - if he impresses in them then he may make the bench for the last test in place of Brown.

Though if there's injuries who knows (I won't say lack of form, as lack of form doesn't matter to England selectors as they just select who they want until they're broken!)

 

[messiah]

I think hes pretty poor defensively but he has pace like no one ive seen

 

[samhall]

I think hes pretty poor defensively but he has pace like no one ive seen

For once I actually agreed with something Stuart Barnes said on the Rugby Club. We should be picking wingers on try scoring ability and not defensive ability. So it really would be good to see Wade get in as he is one of the most potent scorers currently in English rugby.

 

[Teh Mite]

Isn't Barnes the one who said Foden should be a winger?

 

[samhall]

Isn't Barnes the one who said Foden should be a winger?

True, whilst I cannot agree with everything he says, certainly that argument has merit as well. Playing Ashton and Foden on the wing with Brown at full back gives the two most deserving back three players (Foden and Brown) a run out in an England shirt

 

[Teh Mite]

Here we go again.

Foden has played wing once, against the Baabaas, and was dog-****. He played scrum half for a while also and was pretty average there too. He is a fullback, and for that matter a better fullback then Brown could ever dream to be in attack and defence.

Ashton is the best natural try-scorer England has at its disposal, who also appears to be finding his feet again following the world-cup fall out at least in club colours.

Wade is an up-and-coming winger who could be one of the best in the business, provided he's not forced to run before he can walk.

Brown is a decent club level fullback who started the season brightly but faded quickly in a team which has benefited the most in a very disruptive season for their opposition. He also had a great chance for glory in a test shirt and prove the over-blown sky-TV hype is worth it, being offered a match-winning try on a platter from 5m out against Wales with a big enough gap to park a bus, but bottled it and shipped the ball to Strettle. We know how that finished.

The best fullback should stay at fullback. The flavour of the week should be the bench-warmer (until Miller becomes the new flavour of the week in mid-October and he becomes the bench warmer). Play wingers on the wing.

 

[Peat]

For once I actually agreed with something Stuart Barnes said on the Rugby Club. We should be picking wingers on try scoring ability and not defensive ability. So it really would be good to see Wade get in as he is one of the most potent scorers currently in English rugby.

Dunno, it's not like England's wingers looked like getting the opportunities to score tries in the 6N all that often, but my gods they did a lot of defending...

I'm pretty tempted to stick Joseph out there. He has played wing a fair bit, so its not like the Foden/Brown madness, is probably a better all-round player than Strettle at least, would be more defensively secure at a guess...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think hes pretty poor defensively but he has pace like no one ive seen

Wade's defence is fine, I've seen very little evidence to suggest otherwise.

Judging by the backs we have picked, my back 3 would be Ashton Wade and Foden. Strettle is completely average and should not be treated as first choice( we all know he will be). We all know that typically in England selections you have to make a right d**k of yourself to be dropped whilst the team you are playing in is mostly winning its games. That's the drawback of your team being on the up and winning, if you don't get the entire 15 spot on from the beginning you have to wait a while before you can expect to be rid of the players you don't think should be there.

Teh Mite's right about Brown, I knew back when he was the current flavour in 2009 and 2010 that he wasn't what we needed. You don't move your number 1 full-back and best player out of position just to get somebody else in.

 

[j'nuh]

A 42 man squad and still, with the possible exception of Fearns, no specialist 7. Is symbolic of the defence based game that England will play in S.A. or is it just there is nobody good enough. I think Saull would have gone if fit and Armitage too if playing in England. Surely Kvesic should have been fast tracked to tour and what happened to Seymour? Any other English 7s about? Is the style of the English domestic game to blame for the shortage in natural open-sides?

I don't think that's fair to say. We've got a few opensides which have the playing ability to play internationally: Wood (injured), Armitage (needs to be in France), Seymour (not picked), Kvesic (will be involved soon enough). I think that's a decent number of opensides to choose from. Then there's a few players learning the position, such as Fearns and Cox, Saull will hopefully get better etc.

Besides, I think there are ways around not having an openside, they're helpful but not absolutely necessary for success. Would love to see some picked though.

That's the drawback of your team being on the up and winning, if you don't get the entire 15 spot on from the beginning you have to wait a while before you can expect to be rid of the players you don't think should be there.

I suspect you might be right, but let's at least give Lancaster a chance to prove this.

It's possible that Lancaster was obliged to take the EPS as a part of his 42-man squad to SA and besides, most of the EPS do deserve to be there. Unlike under MJ, Lancaster has identified and selected a ridiculous amount of up-and-coming-talent, so I reckon we should give him a chance in his selections to show what he can do. He wasn't ever going to make wholesale changes when so much focus is on making this squad gel, but we might start to see one or two changes during this tour (hopefully).

The best fullback should stay at fullback. The flavour of the week should be the bench-warmer (until Miller becomes the new flavour of the week in mid-October and he becomes the bench warmer). Play wingers on the wing.

Agreed, but there was a point when Foden was "flavour of the week", shoved into the limelight on the back of some sevens performances. He became England's best fullback, much like Miller or even Brown could yet become. btw, if you want to talk about Brown's six nations mistake, remember that Foden offloaded to an Italian for an interception try...

 

[Teh Mite]

The mistake against Italy didn't cost the team a win.

Also, Foden was ignored for the longest time while Armitage had smoke blown up his arse. Don't let history get in the way of a good story though, whatever you do.

 

[j'nuh]

The mistake against Italy didn't cost the team a win.

Don't let a (barely good enough) team effort which brought Foden out of the mire distract you from that Foden's blunder was as bad as, if not worse than Brown's.

Also, Foden was ignored for the longest time while Armitage had smoke blown up his arse. Don't let history get in the way of a good story though, whatever you do.

I never said otherwise? My point is that Foden, like Miller, and like Brown, was "flavour of the month". He deserved the recognition for his form then, as Brown and Miller deserve it for their form now.

 

[Teh Mite]

Let me put it in these terms: Dropping Foden for Brown would be the modern equivalent of SCW dropping Robinson or Lewsey for Balshaw.

 

[Cave Dweller]

No Jonny May. Tom Youngs haha have he ever started a premiership game at hooker?

 

[j'nuh]

Let me put it in these terms: Dropping Foden for Brown would be the modern equivalent of SCW dropping Robinson or Lewsey for Balshaw.

Most aren't asking to drop him though. Just because we recognise Foden's talent doesn't mean we can't appreciate other fullbacks. I'm not a one-fullback kind-of guy. Surely, as an England fan, you must appreciate that we've got a few fullbacks that wouldn't look amiss in an international arena?

 

[Peat]

If you asked me to pick an England team to play for my life, I wouldn't dream of picking anyone other than Foden in a million years.

Given that eventually he'll get injured or lose form, it's worth exploring. What's more, when virtually all our best three players are full-backs, it's tempting to discuss moving one to accomodate another. If you had to play one of Foden or Brown on the wing, Foden seems to have more of the attributes.

Cave Dweller - No, no he hasn't. And don't get me starts on the May thing. Glaws-o-phobia strikes again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

With Quins and Tigers in the final, we're going to be missing a large chunk of the squad for the BaaBaas.
So: what would your side be?

I'd like to see something like this team run out:

1. Matt Mullan
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Paul Doran-Jones
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Tom Palmer (Kitchener if not available, presuming he's not involved with Tiggers)
6. Tom Johnson
7. Carl Fearns (would prefer him at 6 or 8, but he's played the most 7 out of those available, as I presume Haskell's not available)
8. Ben Morgan
9. Lee Dickson
10. Charlie Hodgson
11. Chris Ashton (Strettle if he's broken)
12. Brad Barritt
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Christian Wade
15. Ben Foden

16. Lee Mears
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Graham Kitchener (Botha if starting)
19. ???? Maybe Botha to start with Launchbury here?
20. ???? No other scrumhalves...
21. Alex Goode
22. David Strettle

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If you asked me to pick an England team to play for my life, I wouldn't dream of picking anyone other than Foden in a million years.

Given that eventually he'll get injured or lose form, it's worth exploring. What's more, when virtually all our best three players are full-backs, it's tempting to discuss moving one to accomodate another. If you had to play one of Foden or Brown on the wing, Foden seems to have more of the attributes.

Cave Dweller - No, no he hasn't. And don't get me starts on the May thing. Glaws-o-phobia strikes again.

True, but that's the luxury of having mid-week games in South Africa. That strikes me as the best place to try out other full-backs.

Botha can f**k off. For all his hard work in the six nations I don't see him as a player who will or should be getting anymore than about 15 caps With England(he's on half a dozen now I think). There's half a dozen guys who in a year will probably have eradicated all need for him with England9 hope this doesn't sound too harsh). I'd much rather his spot was given to someone like Matt Garvey with a longer, (and brighter) future ahead of him.

 

[sonnench]

When are South Africa announcing their squad?