England squad for SA tour

[TRF_stormer2010]

When are South Africa announcing their squad?

I heard it'll only be the Saturday evening of the weekend before the 1st test right after the S15 fixture between the Bulls and Stormers. Probably makes sense as that'll be a tough encounter (more than likely the winner will top the log and the fixture isn't a friendly affair in less significant circumstances in any case) and injuries are highly likely. A lot of players will also go head-to-head for Bok berths.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

As Iv'e said, I don't think England will be able to win this series. But I'm really excited because I do think for the first time in quite some time we really do have the players to ask some questions. This is far from the 'park the bus' (please excuse ugly football metaphor) England team of the past. If our forwards let us, our backs can actually score tries this time round.

My backline would be:
9: Care
10: Flood
11) Wade
12) Barritt
13) Tuilagi
14) Ashton
15) Foden

We won't see this team, that's for sure. More likely 9) Dickson 10) Farrell 11) Strettle plus the 12 - 15 from above.

It's fast becoming clear to me that Strettle isn't a natural finisher. (bit of a bungle with that try against leicester). I'd love to see Wade in action.

Can I ask South African fans here who the likely starting front-row would be, and how strong their set-piece will be?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

As Iv'e said, I don't think England will be able to win this series. But I'm really excited because I do think for the first time in quite some time we really do have the players to ask some questions. This is far from the 'park the bus' (please excuse ugly football metaphor) England team of the past. If our forwards let us, our backs can actually score tries this time round.

My backline would be:
9: Care
10: Flood
11) Wade
12) Barritt
13) Tuilagi
14) Ashton
15) Foden

We won't see this team, that's for sure. More likely 9) Dickson 10) Farrell 11) Strettle plus the 12 - 15 from above.

It's fast becoming clear to me that Strettle isn't a natural finisher. (bit of a bungle with that try against leicester). I'd love to see Wade in action.

Can I ask South African fans here who the likely starting front-row would be, and how strong their set-piece will be?

That's a handy-looking backline I have to admit.

As for our likely starting frontrow I'd love to answer but have no idea. I don't think meyer is going to go for too many inexperienced picks for the upcoming tests because he has no time. Also, because of the derby between the Bulls and Stormers I would bet on an all-Sharks frontrow in Mtawarira and the du Plessis brothers with Werner Kruger the most likely 'outside chance' ahead of Jannie du Plessis with either of him Dean Greyling, JdP or Pat Cilliers on the bench (I wouldn't bank on my opinion though). Those are the likely props (unless Meyer looks towards our props in Europe) with either of Adriaan Strauss or more probablu Chiliboy Ralepel on the bench as cover for Bismarck.

 

[j'nuh]

With Quins and Tigers in the final, we're going to be missing a large chunk of the squad for the BaaBaas.
So: what would your side be?

I'd like to see something like this team run out:

1. Matt Mullan
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Paul Doran-Jones
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Tom Palmer (Kitchener if not available, presuming he's not involved with Tiggers)
6. Tom Johnson
7. Carl Fearns (would prefer him at 6 or 8, but he's played the most 7 out of those available, as I presume Haskell's not available)
8. Ben Morgan
9. Lee Dickson
10. Charlie Hodgson
11. Chris Ashton (Strettle if he's broken)
12. Brad Barritt
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Christian Wade
15. Ben Foden

16. Lee Mears
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Graham Kitchener (Botha if starting)
19. ???? Maybe Botha to start with Launchbury here?
20. ???? No other scrumhalves...
21. Alex Goode
22. David Strettle

I'd be tempted to try and put as many fringe/replacable players out as possible, to avoid injuries to those who we need in SA and also to give them a bit of breathing space after the season. We need to protect players like Foden and Morgan imo, and don't think they gain anything out of being involved. So I'd go with:

1. Mullan
2. Hartley (exception to the above, since he's had an 8-week break and should get a match in him)
3. PDJ
4. Kitchener
5. Launchbury
6. Johnson
7. Fearns
8. Dowson
9. Spencer
10. Hodgson
11. Strettle
12. Barritt
13. Joseph
14. Wade (exception to the above, would help him to have a game for England before being thrown in the deep end)
15. Goode

16. Youngs if not involved in final/Mears
17. Stevens
18. Palmer
19. Botha
20. Dickson
21. Farrell (try not to use him!)
22. Ashton

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Waldrom will be playing in the final - we'll only have 3 backrowers (four including Launchbury) available.
I tried to put in as many fringe players as possible but with the amount missing due to the final it forces your hand a bit in some positions.

 

[Peat]

I'd quite like to see Farrell at 10 with the instructions of "Show us what you can do running an attacking backline"...

 

[Cave Dweller]

Running or not it won't help if your half back takes 2 minutes to pass the ball from the back of the ruck.

 

[Teh Mite]

I know, let's spend the next 4 years developing and trying out players. That's a plan which won't backfire, not even slightly.

 

[gingergenius]

I'd like to see our strongest side available playing the Barbarians - it'll do a lot of good for continuity and confidence if they can get a win, plus the missing Tigers and Quins players will leave space for some new blood. That said, we're short on scrum halves, second rows and back rows, so I'm guessing there'll be a few Saxons involved.

Given it's a BaaBaas game, I think it's essential that the likes of Wade and Joseph have a go - and it might be fun to throw Armitage a callup as well so we can have a breakaway at 7.

 

[Peat]

I'd like to see our strongest side available playing the Barbarians - it'll do a lot of good for continuity and confidence if they can get a win, plus the missing Tigers and Quins players will leave space for some new blood. That said, we're short on scrum halves, second rows and back rows, so I'm guessing there'll be a few Saxons involved.

Given it's a BaaBaas game, I think it's essential that the likes of Wade and Joseph have a go - and it might be fun to throw Armitage a callup as well so we can have a breakaway at 7.

No chance of Armitage unless I'm mistaken, game overlaps with the French play-offs, and even if it is in the RFU international window (I don't know), Lancaster is clearly willing to wait a bit rather than ******* off Toulon/making Armitage pick between club and country.

edit: I'd put money on Fearns being 7 in Robshaw's absence.

 

[j'nuh]

Waldrom will be playing in the final - we'll only have 3 backrowers (four including Launchbury) available.
I tried to put in as many fringe players as possible but with the amount missing due to the final it forces your hand a bit in some positions.

Whoops, mindslip. My bad... editted.

I wonder, all things considered, whether there might be some more temporary call ups to the squad to face the Barbarians?

I'd like to see our strongest side available playing the Barbarians - it'll do a lot of good for continuity and confidence if they can get a win, plus the missing Tigers and Quins players will leave space for some new blood.

I considered this, but thought that without Croft, Robshaw, Tuilagi, Parling and Cole, it might not be worth considering continuity.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We'll need a scrumhalf called up definitely - not sure who as K.Dickson will be in the final and Ben Spencer will be in SA with the u20s.
Maybe Wigglesworth? Seems a bit of a backwards step considering he's unlikely to feature for England afterwards, though.

I'd forgotten about Dowson, so he can go on the bench as backrow cover in the team I posted above.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Just hope they assign a ref that knows what is going on in the scrums and not that bloke who officiated the Eng vs Ireland game where he gave a penalty try to fix up a earlier mistake and asked stupid things out of the TMO's protocol. Geesh that was a laugh

 

[j'nuh]

We'll need a scrumhalf called up definitely - not sure who as K.Dickson will be in the final and Ben Spencer will be in SA with the u20s.
Maybe Wigglesworth? Seems a bit of a backwards step considering he's unlikely to feature for England afterwards, though.

I'd forgotten about Dowson, so he can go on the bench as backrow cover in the team I posted above.

Wasn't aware that Spencer was with the u20s.

Haydn Thomas definitely deserves to be the next in line. At first I was worried that he's a little old to be 4th in line (5th when Simpson gets injury-free and on form), but considering how young Youngs, Simpson and Care are, and how Spencer and Robson will (hopefully) be on the scene within a couple of years, and how Dickson will also be with us at least until the 2015 WC, I think we can afford to not be particularly picky about age in that position.

Another option is to pick which of Micky Young and Sam Harrison Leicester don't put on the bench in the final.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Updated squad for the Barbarians match:

Forwards
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Carl Fearns (Bath Rugby)
Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Backs
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Haydn Thomas (Exeter Chiefs)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)







It's not going to happen, but I'd love to see:

1. Mullan
2. Hartley
3. Doran-Jones
4. Launchbury
5. Palmer
6. Fearns
7. Gibson
8. Morgan
9. Thomas
10. Burns
11. Ashton
12. Barritt
13. Joseph
14. Wade
15. Foden

Mears, Corbisiero, Botha, Johnson, Dickson, Hodgson, Strettle

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just hope they assign a ref that knows what is going on in the scrums and not that bloke who officiated the Eng vs Ireland game where he gave a penalty try to fix up a earlier mistake and asked stupid things out of the TMO's protocol. Geesh that was a laugh

Steve Walsh is going to be the ref in 2 of the matches...

 

[Cave Dweller]

Steve Walsh is going to be the ref in 2 of the matches...

Sending him over for a holiday? He might become a alcoholic again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/England-told-stay-away-row-Leicester-Tigers/story-16106501-detail/story.html
Bit of a kerfuffle with Cockerill not allowing the England physio to see Toby Flood.
Either: He doesn't want Quins to know he's not available for the the final, or he's not 100% whether Flood will be fit in time for the tour and wants to give him more time to heal before being assessed by England, oooorrrr he's planning on playing him not 100% fit and doesn't want the RFU to know?

Perhaps Freddie Burns will tour in his place.

 

[Teh Mite]

Or - He's well aware how inept the England conditioning and physio team are so doesn't want them ruining his players. Nick Johnson commented back in December that when the England players returned from the world cup, they were at something like 75% fitness of where he expected them to be by the end of club pre-season. I expect all the clubs think the same.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's very strange as the guy in charge of England's S&C (Paul Stridgeon) is considered one of the best in the business.

I do remember hearing that post world cup though.

What's Cockerill got to lose by letting them assess Flood, though? He's still under Tigers training and rehab rule, they just wanted to see what's what with his injury.