England Post-WC discussion

[stus768]

The main issue I have is Sarries forwards tend to make the Sarries backs look good. Farrell is getting the armchair ride of his life and even some like Barritt isn't a liability because the forwards give them such good ball. I worry Jones may go the same way as Lancaster to start with by looking at Sarries dominance and selecting Sarries backs with other clubs forwards.

I agree with the above. Also a big part of the reason Sarries works is down to culture and cohesion. With obvious massive amounts of practice on a specific game plan that everyone is happy to follow.

Very tough to emulate for an international team like England. No matter how fun Gustard can make defence drills!

 

[TommiG88]

Everyone moaned about Lancaster playing players out of position. Then I read that Farrell should play 12 and itoje at 6....

Itoje is a second rower, he may play 6 time to time but that isn't his main role. Farrell has been good this season but Saracens pack is dominating teams so it's hard to gauge.

If Farrell starts, I would have Eastmond at 12.

Devoto is over rated in my opinion, seen him do a few bright things but he's behind Eastmond when fit.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I think I'd rather have a weak defensive 10 than 12. Far harder to cover and double tackle/pair with a flanker at inside centre than fly half. To an extent a weak tackling fly half can be hidden, less so a 12.

Part of why I can't really see Eastmond playing for England, however good the rest of his game is. There's a reason Barritt clung to his place for so long.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any international teams who play a "small" inside centre. Jamie Roberts, Alex Dunbar, Nonu, even Fofana isn't small. Matt Giteau I suppose?

 

[Mumbles119]

Whenever the incumbent usual suspects for the 12 shirt are mooted - Barritt, Burrell, Twelvetrees and Eastmond. There is always a failing point for not selecting them. So maybe it is time to not select a usual suspect and bemoan a lack of success at the expense of developing newer unproven talent.
Obviously Slade was a widely suggested option, but as he is probably not available that leaves Hill, Mills and Devoto (maybe Stephenson too).
So is there any point waiting and not trying to develop talent considering where England are in mid change and World Cup cycle?

Right now it feels Hill and Mills fits the mould, and with Farrell a competent cover at 12 this could work. How do you see Hill and Mills comparing against each other?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Then I read that Farrell should play 12

If that's in reference to me, then let me be clear - I'm suggesting that it is a possibility, not expressing any preference one way or the other.

 

[Maverick1987]

England rugby related - but slightly off piste... this has come up yet again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-35204504

Coincidently it seems this bill will be brought to Parliament on the same day Eddie is due to announce the new EPS - 13th January

Jones' EPS announcement is on the 6th January

 

[Mumbles119]

Jones' EPS announcement is on the 6th January

Thanks for the correction. Was going by the date stated in a Guardian article.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/02/ed-slater-knee-injury-leicester-england-eddie-jones

 

[Maverick1987]

Thanks for the correction. Was going by the date stated in a Guardian article.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/02/ed-slater-knee-injury-leicester-england-eddie-jones

I also got it from the guardian but a much older article so your one is probably up to date

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/26/eddie-jones-england-rfu-twickenham-selection

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I also got it from the guardian but a much older article so your one is probably up to date

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/26/eddie-jones-england-rfu-twickenham-selection

yeah unfortunately I'm fairly sure we'll have to wait until the 13th..
Shame about Attwood.

 

[NickBD]

Rugby Tonight on BT yesterday said the squad gets announced in 9 days.

 

[Geordie]

EPS is announced on the 13th January

- - - Updated - - -

So far then what are people thinking?

1 Vunipola
2 George
3 ??
4 Kruis / Kitchener
5 Launchbury
6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 B. Vunipola / B. Morgan (has improved his form recently)

9 Care
10 Ford
11 Nowell
12 Hill
13 JJ / Daly
14 Watson
15 Brown (Not in great form, but stick with him)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Youngs for Care

And either Farrell @10 or 12.

If 12 Cips @ 10.

 

[ZeroTwo]

EPS is announced on the 13th January

- - - Updated - - -

So far then what are people thinking?

1 Vunipola
2 George
3 ??
4 Kruis / Kitchener
5 Launchbury
6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 B. Vunipola / B. Morgan (has improved his form recently)

9 Care
10 Ford
11 Nowell
12 Hill
13 JJ / Daly
14 Watson
15 Brown (Not in great form, but stick with him)

I wouldn't pick Ford or Hill.

Ford's form has been awful and I think we have better centre options. Good call up front and it would be good to see Robshaw work blindside.

 

[Mumbles119]

EPS is announced on the 13th January

- - - Updated - - -

So far then what are people thinking?

1 Vunipola
2 George
3 ??
4 Kruis / Kitchener
5 Launchbury
6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 B. Vunipola / B. Morgan (has improved his form recently)

9 Care
10 Ford
11 Nowell
12 Hill
13 JJ / Daly
14 Watson
15 Brown (Not in great form, but stick with him)

Would mostly agree with you, but like @ZeroTwo I wouldn't pick Ford.

I cannot decide if we just need to risk an immediate new 12 straight away which would be 10. Farrell 12.Hill 13. Daly.

or

Cover with experience for now, and allow a new 12 more time with Eddie before their first test, which would be 10. Cipriani 12. Farrell 13. Daly

 

[Geordie]

Farrell is certainly the form 10, and Cips hasn't been bad.

I was just think about consistency and hopefully being in the squad can bring some form back.

Whats peoples thoughts on the 3 spot?

 

[ZeroTwo]

Farrell is certainly the form 10, and Cips hasn't been bad.

I was just think about consistency and hopefully being in the squad can bring some form back.

Whats peoples thoughts on the 3 spot?

See if Wales have any decent youngsters?

 

[Mumbles119]

Farrell is certainly the form 10, and Cips hasn't been bad.

I was just think about consistency and hopefully being in the squad can bring some form back.

Whats peoples thoughts on the 3 spot?

Cole brings experience and calmness, but would also feel Henry Thomas might be a scrummaging solution. Would love to see Paul Hill involved too.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Farrell is certainly the form 10, and Cips hasn't been bad.

I was just think about consistency and hopefully being in the squad can bring some form back.

Whats peoples thoughts on the 3 spot?

I don't think it tells the full story though. Farrell is in a Sarries side that is just dominating everyone. All he really needs to do is not be atrocious to look good in that team. Ford is in a Bath team that has completely fallen to pieces. He is a player that needs options and he just isn't getting any. Cipriani is the one who best knows how to play 10 in a side that doesn't give him an armchair ride, his only issue is he will be at the tail end of his time by the next world cup. Personally, I'd take Ford as first choice still as he hasn't really performed badly for England recently, with Cipriani and Farrell having time to see who works best in an England shirt, admittedly maybe not all in this 6N.

I don't see Farrell at 12 unless he alos moves there for Sarries, it feels very much like a stop-gap measure. I'd much rather get a proper full time 12 blooded than have Farrell playing there. Also I REALLY wish commentators would stop calling Farrell the "iceman", he is one of the most hot headed players in the England setup, slightly below Brown.

As for the forwards, I would have bigged up the Bath forwards such as Auterac, Thomas and Attwood but right now I'm not confident in any of them (or they are injured). I do think Auterac could become the next on form Corbisiero though.

 

[Maverick1987]

I don't think it tells the full story though. Farrell is in a Sarries side that is just dominating everyone. All he really needs to do is not be atrocious to look good in that team. Ford is in a Bath team that has completely fallen to pieces. He is a player that needs options and he just isn't getting any. Cipriani is the one who best knows how to play 10 in a side that doesn't give him an armchair ride, his only issue is he will be at the tail end of his time by the next world cup. Personally, I'd take Ford as first choice still as he hasn't really performed badly for England recently, with Cipriani and Farrell having time to see who works best in an England shirt, admittedly maybe not all in this 6N.

I don't see Farrell at 12 unless he alos moves there for Sarries, it feels very much like a stop-gap measure. I'd much rather get a proper full time 12 blooded than have Farrell playing there. Also I REALLY wish commentators would stop calling Farrell the "iceman", he is one of the most hot headed players in the England setup, slightly below Brown.

As for the forwards, I would have bigged up the Bath forwards such as Auterac, Thomas and Attwood but right now I'm not confident in any of them (or they are injured). I do think Auterac could become the next on form Corbisiero though.

I think you are being unfair on Farrell there he's looked far better in attack and isn't just going along for an armchair ride behind a huge pack . He's been much better than in previous years and for once I'd be happy for him to start against Scotland in the 6N . His running, passing and offloading has improved massively ! As far as the tight head position is concerned if seriously consider dropping Petrus Du Plessis in for the 6N as a short term option he works well in the Sarries set up and can do a job whilst Brookes is injured and Cole is seriously out of form

 

[Geordie]

Du Plessis?
That is a joke isn't it?

Every player im currently hearing is a foreigner with a greater or lesser status of England qualification, ie Paretns are English, Grandparents are English, 3 year residency etc...

Ewers
Harrison
Mitch Lees
Patterson
O'Conner
Nathan Hughes
etc
etc

Jeez can we not pick from the young English lads at our clubs???