[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[j'nuh]

Ummm why does anyone think kvesic will solve the breakdown problems.

Having 1 player in the team won't make our forwards take the ball from deep and at pace!

If kvesic performs better than robshaw, include him.....but he isn't a better player than robshaw. What two points of difference does he offer?

I'm not saying he's not a good player but we are talking about usurping the England captain here

There are two separate issues to focus on - we're not competitive enough on our own ball, and we are not competitive enough on opposition ball.

Kvesic can be part of the solution to the first issue. He's good at securing ball. But no, you cannot solve that issue with one player. That's a team-wide, multi-faceted issue. We need more carriers, we need more physicality in the breakdown, we need faster support etc.

But Kvesic can be the solution to the second issue, as he is light-years ahead of Robshaw in disrupting the breakdown. Alongside Launchbury and Cole, we'd be set. A second point is that he's a stronger carrier.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Both Ewers and Kvesic should be ahead of Wood, Haskell and Clarke ATM.

 

[MrTea_32]

Both Ewers and Kvesic should be ahead of Wood, Haskell and Clarke ATM.

I agree, if only haskell could play every game like he did against Wales then I'd be adamant he was our 6 but at the moment it's up for grabs.
Like it's been said above I'd like to see itoje, ewers and burgess in the 45 man training camp.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Burgess is pencilled in for the BaaBaas game - will be interested to see in which position, though.
I reckon Lancaster would've preferred Bath kept him in the centres, but i imagine they will (and should!) keep him at 6.

 

[j'nuh]

Wood beat Francis and Francis beat Corbisiero, therefore Wood > Corbisiero.

Wood for England.

On a more serious note, Gloucester had the weakest scrum last season, and Hibbard/Afoa struggled to work together earlier this season, but now it seems to be clicking for Gloucester. Everyone is on Afoa's page, the height of our scrum is incredibly low. Impossible to get underneath it. If England wanted to go low, they could do worse than putting Wood and Youngs together.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wood is the only prop to get yellow carded for being manshamed by Henry Thomas at the height of his terribleness.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wood beat Francis and Francis beat Corbisiero, therefore Wood > Corbisiero.

Wood for England.

Or Francis and current Corbs are both not particularly great come scrum time.

Also LH's don't face each other.

 

[j'nuh]

Wood is the only prop to get yellow carded for being manshamed by Henry Thomas at the height of his terribleness.

Harden was locking down our scrum at the time. Your argument is invalid.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Harden was locking down our scrum at the time. Your argument is invalid.

What has happened with Stooke?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What has happened with Stooke?

He was massively over hyped based on age grade and 'A' team rugby, essentially

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He was massively over hyped based on age grade and 'A' team rugby, essentially

I thought played well in the AP either last year or the year before.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah, looked promising, still does. Young guys form will always lack consistency.

I can't remember who said it, but an AP coach (might have been Hatley) was saying that most young players will only be able to maintain their "breakthrough form" for up to about 10 games.

 

[j'nuh]

What has happened with Stooke?

Our second row supplies increased. Palmer (who has been an incredibly astute signing for us!) and Galarza joined, whereas last season, his competition was James and Hudson. Thrush is also joining next season and I don't think anyone is leaving (unless Palmer retires), so difficult times ahead for Stooke.

It's mixed feelings. Second row was weak for us last season and now we're doing quite well there. But all the added quality means less game time for Stooke which may slow down his development. He's only 21 though, still a baby for a lock. Palmer will retire sooner rather than later, Savage is being talked about as moving to 6 in the long-term and Galarza may well move back to Argentina for an international place, so there's a way into the Gloucester side for Stooke.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wouldn't be surprise if it is the same next season that he will look to move.

Quins should take a look at him if that is the case. Hell Bath could do with some locks although Garvey might be staying there with Burgess @ 6.

 

[j'nuh]

I was saying the same on Shedweb a few months ago. We saw from everything that happened with Robson that our coaches care more about the here and now than appeasing youth. Not sure whether it is a good or bad policy to take, but I am worried that we will lose Stooke from it. I am more worried about losing Stooke than Robson tbh.

If he has to move, I hope he goes to Exeter. They have a good record of developing youth and I can see him fitting in nicely there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I was saying the same on Shedweb a few months ago. We saw from everything that happened with Robson that our coaches care more about the here and now than appeasing youth. Not sure whether it is a good or bad policy to take, but I am worried that we will lose Stooke from it. I am more worried about losing Stooke than Robson tbh.

If he has to move, I hope he goes to Exeter. They have a good record of developing youth and I can see him fitting in nicely there.

Parling and Stooke would be a good combo in terms of complementing each other.

I think it is prob something Glous needed to do BUT I think getting Laidlaw was not the best of moves whilst a great 9 i think you would have been better waiting another season and trying to sign a proper 10 (Which Hook is not) or even look to booster the pack depth still.

 

[Peat]

Kvesic and Robshaw would be the closest thing we've had to Neil Back and Richard Hill forever and, while that's a good thing, it should also be noted their greatness was in part formed of a very hard carrying tight five. I do not think our attempt to do such a thing would be good enough. I think we'd have more success with the sort of tight five that frees up the back row to do a lot of carrying, but that seems to go hand in glove with putting a lot of pressure on our hooker.

In any case - I don't expect Kvesic to be given an opportunity to play like an openside. He's a good enough all round flanker to deserve a shot but I remain convinced Robshaw is better at the breakdown than he is allowed to show in that team because contesting the breakdown comes second to making tackles for them.

And, well, I like Robshaw a lot but I don't think he is categorically shown himself to be the flanker we need to reach the next level. Ideally, his position would not be safe.

 

[91jmay]

Or Francis and current Corbs are both not particularly great come scrum time.

Also LH's don't face each other.

Corbs has been great at scrum time this year, it was one game. It happens.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wouldn't say great TBH.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Corbs has been average at the scrum this year on the whole.