[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[psychic duck]

Be interesting to see what that means for his club career.
Will he feel pressured into moving to one of the Italian clubs? His stock would drop (slightly) with English clubs as he'd take up a non-EQP spot in a matchday 23.

I hope this falls through. Italy are taking the cheap route in pinching other nations' kids. Time they learnt how to develop their own fly halves.

 

[goodNumber10]

I hope this falls through. Italy are taking the cheap route in pinching other nations' kids. Time they learnt how to develop their own fly halves.

I also hope he doesn't jump to Italy, but i do understand them poaching. A strong international team with a good flyhalf will allow them to develop future players with less pressure on them and with someone for them to aspire to.

One of the biggest problems in italy is that previous success hasn't been built on in the same way that Argentina's was, so they haven't developed the players they need now.

 

[Peat]

Tbh, I kinda hope he does it.

I'm bored of Italy being crap. I imagine Italian fans must be as well, it's got to be pretty difficult for them to grow the conditions where they produce a good supply of their own international players. If they need to poach some more players to create a side to turn that around, fine. The 6N should have no easy matches. I'd prefer it wasn't our youngsters, but oh well.

I accept that's a very simplistic view of what Italy need with some probable inaccuracies - continuous poaching won't solve things - but I think there's some truth there as well. They need some sticking plasters to make international rugby a better place as well as surgery and rehab. .

 

[goodNumber10]

Tbh, I kinda hope he does it.

I'm bored of Italy being crap. I imagine Italian fans must be as well, it's got to be pretty difficult for them to grow the conditions where they produce a good supply of their own international players. If they need to poach some more players to create a side to turn that around, fine. The 6N should have no easy matches. I'd prefer it wasn't our youngsters, but oh well.

I accept that's a very simplistic view of what Italy need with some probable inaccuracies - continuous poaching won't solve things - but I think there's some truth there as well. They need some sticking plasters to make international rugby a better place as well as surgery and rehab. .

i agree.

there is obviously far more to developing a good sustainable team and infrastructure and finances need to be seriously looked into (where has all the money gone?), but a strong international team will help the domestic game no doubt.

 

[91jmay]

Interesting thread discussion RE set piece vs breakdown. I would say being bad at a set piece destroys a team more quickly than being bad at breakdown does, although obviously ou need dominance at both really. Haskell, Vunipola, Robshaw would be my guess at our back row during WC with Wood off bench. Can't see SL trying anything else.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I agree, but I also feel that a good enough set piece and a terrifying breakdown is more likely to destroy an opposition than vice versa. I think England focus a bit much on the set piece and set piece dominance when compomrising it a little to improve their breakdown work would have a big impact; the massive esteem that Launchbury is held in over here is a big illustration of this to my mind.

 

[Peat]

You see, I'd say that England pay too little attention to both set piece and breakdown when it comes to the pack and instead prioritize work rate and defence instead.

I would also point to Australia as evidence of what can be achieved with a dodgy set piece and a good breakdown. Pocock's return to fitness and form is not good news for us.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Itoje has got to be looked at for the WC if he is playing for Sarriers every game to the squad announcement now.

Either as a lock or 6.

Would be very happy if Lancaster had the guts to pick Ewers and Itoje as our 6's.

England should have no excuse for 2019 when you look at the players we have who are U25.

 

[chippieolamus]

Surely he has to be considered, if he plays 6 he gives a good lineout option which Lancaster will like, plus he hits rucks harder, carries harder and makes more tackles than Haskell and Wood. Plus he can cover lock, and its useful to have versatile players when you have a limited squad size.

 

[91jmay]

You see, I'd say that England pay too little attention to both set piece and breakdown when it comes to the pack and instead prioritize work rate and defence instead.

I would also point to Australia as evidence of what can be achieved with a dodgy set piece and a good breakdown. Pocock's return to fitness and form is not good news for us.

What are Australia evidence of? Not exactly a successful side are they.

Itoje has massive talent but I'd warn against pencilling someone who has made so few appearances into international rugby. I would invite him to camp though at least.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tuilagi had much less experience going into the 2011 RWC


I don't think Lancaster will use him in his squad, to be honest. His mancrush on Clarke runs too deep to have Itoje leap frog him.

 

[j'nuh]

What are Australia evidence of? Not exactly a successful side are they.

Itoje has massive talent but I'd warn against pencilling someone who has made so few appearances into international rugby. I would invite him to camp though at least.

They are consistently in the top three sides in the world despite it being, at best, their fourth most popular team sport.

 

[91jmay]

Clark is an excellent player and should be in Lancasters thoughts.

Manu played 26 times for Leicester as well as Saxons games and full England before the World Cup. Itoje has currently played 16 professional games.

I would invite him to that summer workout though for sure, along with Ewer and Burgess. Ball carrying options all of a sudden coming into place at 6.

- - - Updated - - -

They are consistently in the top three sides in the world despite it being, at best, their fourth most popular team sport.

I agree in historical context but I meant RE last 12 months and in regards to World Cup. Not sure they are model I'd be looking to copy is all I am saying.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Clark is an excellent player and should be in Lancasters thoughts.

It's not Clarks skills that are the point of contention.

 

[chippieolamus]

Clark is an excellent player and should be in Lancasters thoughts.

Manu played 26 times for Leicester as well as Saxons games and full England before the World Cup. Itoje has currently played 16 professional games.

I would invite him to that summer workout though for sure, along with Ewer and Burgess. Ball carrying options all of a sudden coming into place at 6.

If Itoje plays all the games in the remainder of the season he will have played 21 games, which is not much less than 26. Itoje has also played for the saxons, and the first time Tuilagi played for England was in the WC warm ups iirc, which is where Itoje will make his debut if SL plans on playing him.

 

[91jmay]

So his statement about Manu having much less experience is false then which is what I was showing?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Clark should not be in the England set up ahead of Ewers IMO.

 

[91jmay]

I agree I would put Ewers in there for his different skill set as much as anything.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well, I was genuinely convinced that Manu had like half of those appearances! My mistake!
Still, Itoje has captained several cup winning sides (Saracens, Sarries Storm and England u20s) so maybe Lancs will view him as ready.



I don't care about Clarke's skills, I'd happily see him drop out of the England set up for good.



In 2011 we took 4 locks, 4 flankers and 2 8s.
Presumably we'd be looking at:
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood

Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, A.N.Other

Binny, Morgan



So Itoje would have to scrap it out with Croft, Kvesic, Clarke, (Ewers? Easter?).
If he keeps up these performances, especially in the playoffs, I don't think he'd be a million miles away, thinking about it. Lancaster loves a lineout guy at 6, so if Croft is out then I think it could be a straight shootout between Maro and Clarke.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well, I was genuinely convinced that Manu had like half of those appearances! My mistake!
Still, Itoje has captained several cup winning sides (Saracens, Sarries Storm and England u20s) so maybe Lancs will view him as ready.



I don't care about Clarke's skills, I'd happily see him drop out of the England set up for good.

Seconded re Clarke.