England future management?

[Vieux Talonneur]

Despite only 3 countries in the world playing RL, it doesn't say much about our northern toughies that England have never won the RLWC and the last time GB did was in 1972!

When RL had the money they were quite happy to pinch all the RU talent - Davies, Quinnell, Chariots, Gibbs...boot's on the other foot at the moment.

But I totally agree that we should stop pinching your coaches.

That said I do enjoy watching RL. It's not worse, just different.

 

[McTallshort]

I agree let them have Farrell snr back and Farrel jnr for that matter.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why are the press saying we're after Gatland?
I really hope that's not true.

 

[Mattybuck]

Gatland would be an odd move.

Don't see the RFU going for it and more importantly Gatland himself.

Edwards may well be interested. He was courted by RFU before but pledged to Wales. That may well have changed now, proven international defence coach, exactly what we need in the new set up...

My dream team is coming together

SCW - Director of Rugby
Eddie Jones - Head Coach
Steve Borthwick - Forwards
Shaun Edwards - Defence

Undecided on skills/backs coach.

Now to get appointed as head of RFU...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Gatland would be an odd move.

Don't see the RFU going for it and more importantly Gatland himself.

Edwards may well be interested. He was courted by RFU before but pledged to Wales. That may well have changed now, proven international defence coach, exactly what we need in the new set up...

My dream team is coming together

SCW - Director of Rugby
Eddie Jones - Head Coach
Steve Borthwick - Forwards
Shaun Edwards - Defence

Undecided on skills/backs coach.

Now to get appointed as head of RFU...

Would fear that Borthwick would place too much emphasis on the line out when we have much more pressing needs at the breakdown, and scrum for that matter. Must be a hard nosed kiwi somewhere that'd fit the bill. Does Baxter do much hands on coaching? If so, there could be the germ of a succession plan.

No reason why Catt shouldn't continue with the backs as we've shown flashes of some quite decent rugby over the last couple of years. But the coach doesn't really matter if you pick a pack that generates slow ball and a midfield that can't pass. Get the selection right and he'll be fine. Some measure of continuity would be good.

 

[Mattybuck]

Can see your point with Borthwick and I may be guilty of being over excited after Japan's performance.

I'd be happy to see Catt stay, always been a big fan of his and to be honest when the selection has been right, the backs have looked dangerous.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Can see your point with Borthwick and I may be guilty of being over excited after Japan's performance.

I'd be happy to see Catt stay, always been a big fan of his and to be honest when the selection has been right, the backs have looked dangerous.

Had never associated over excitement with Borthwick before

The Gatland rumours are interesting.

Have his teams played pretty rugby? Intermittently.
Does he have a clear idea on selection? Yep, although the player base is obviously much smaller.
Has he got the most out of the players available to him and is the team better than the sum of its parts? These are the $64m questions for any coach and I'd pretty much say the answers are yes to both.

Would be gob smacked if he ever came, but wouldn't be upset if he did. And he could bring his attack dog in chief Edwards with him.

 

[McTallshort]

Had never associated over excitement with Borthwick before

The Gatland rumours are interesting.

Have his teams played pretty rugby? Intermittently.
Does he have a clear idea on selection? Yep, although the player base is obviously much smaller.
Has he got the most out of the players available to him and is the team better than the sum of its parts? These are the $64m questions for any coach and I'd pretty much say the answers are yes to both.

Would be gob smacked if he ever came, but wouldn't be upset if he did. And he could bring his attack dog in chief Edwards with him.

Gatland no thanks, that style of rugby is too easy to analyse that's why they have hardly ever succeeded against SH teams.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Yeah but three weeks ago.

Kidding. Gatland is the only coach other than Lancaster that I simply wouldn't tolerate right now. Either of those and I'm taking my redundancy money, moving to scandinavia and getting into curling.

 

[Maverick1987]

Gatland no thanks, that style of rugby is too easy to analyse that's why they have hardly ever succeeded against SH teams.

Wasps didn't play like that under Gatland though . I think in the same way as Schmidt has adopted a kick chase game with Ireland, Gatland simply feels that Warrenball is the best way to go with Wales . I'd be very surprised if he went with the same gameplan if he came to England with our creative fast backs

Let's be honest Wales best backs in Gatlands tenure have been Roberts and North both who are in no way anything like JJ and Watson ......

He wouldn't be my first choice but the way he gets 120% out of his players almost every game is quite unbelievable

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wasps didn't play like that under Gatland though . I think in the same way as Schmidt has adopted a kick chase game with Ireland, Gatland simply feels that Warrenball is the best way to go with Wales . I'd be very surprised if he went with the same gameplan if he came to England with our creative fast backs

Let's be honest Wales best backs in Gatlands tenure have been Roberts and North both who are in no way anything like JJ and Watson ......

He wouldn't be my first choice but the way he gets 120% out of his players almost every game is quite unbelievable

Great post.

 

[AzaMatt]

i cant see Gatland leaving us to be honest, he does seem to really like this wales team and want to achieve more with them. although money talks. im sure the RFU could quite easily throw ridiculous amounts of money at him to see if he takes it. Im not sure he would though, as it would be a massive kick in the balls to wales if he left when we are clearly on the up. he'll wait untill NZ come knocking and then he will leave, id have no problems with that though as anyone would jump at the chance to coach the all blacks and it is his home country. same thing goes for shaun edwards, i can see england making him an offer but i can also see him accepting it.

 

[nickdnz]

I'd be ****** if we went with Gatland tbh. I'd either prefer Rennie or Schmidt. Heck, I'd go with Deans or Cotter b4 Gatland.

 

[Peat]

Wasps didn't play like that under Gatland though . I think in the same way as Schmidt has adopted a kick chase game with Ireland, Gatland simply feels that Warrenball is the best way to go with Wales . I'd be very surprised if he went with the same gameplan if he came to England with our creative fast backs

Let's be honest Wales best backs in Gatlands tenure have been Roberts and North both who are in no way anything like JJ and Watson ......

He wouldn't be my first choice but the way he gets 120% out of his players almost every game is quite unbelievable

On the one hand, believe you're bang on here.

On the other... we've seen two very successful NZ coaches drop most idea of attacking ambition when presented with a NH international team and I'm dubious that we have enough passers to make Gatland change his mind here.

 

[Mattybuck]

I'm annoyed that RFU has not made a decision either way on SL and rest of coaching team.

This review is a load of guff, it is back him or sack him time.

Wasting time to find a replacement and or build for 6N.

Wales clearly on the up??? I wouldn't say that at all.

Personally I think he has taken Wales as far as he ever will!

 

[Brom]

The influence of Rugby League

Despite only 3 countries in the world playing RL, it doesn't say much about our northern toughies that England have never won the RLWC and the last time GB did was in 1972!

When RL had the money they were quite happy to pinch all the RU talent - Davies, Quinnell, Chariots, Gibbs...boot's on the other foot at the moment.

But I totally agree that we should stop pinching your coaches.

That said I do enjoy watching RL. It's not worse, just different.

There are good reasons to look to Rugby League especially after the northern hemisphere failure in this WC. Northerners may not be aware of how much League has influenced Union, especially in Aus but also in NZ. This started to happen in the 70s and 80s when Rugby began to utilize League's slide (drift) defence, 1 on 1 and gang tackling techniques, the use of dummy runners, flat attacking formations, face passing on the gain line, drop punting. All these came from League. (Now that drop punts are widespread in Rugby, the League kickers have gone back to spirals or no-spin bombs which drift and swerve above the catcher).
The reason that League is so progressive in Australia could be something to do with not being an establishment sport, not overly dominated by administrators, nor usually coached by ex-schoolmasters. In any case, there is a built in expectation that coaches and players develop individual attacking and defensive skills. These are practised by kids in every back yard and local park. They try to perfect Sonny Bill's offload or Israel Folau's step or Sam Burgess' crushing tackles or even something new of their own.
This is not how kids practice, play and get coached in England and why it may take another 10 years to find 15 senior players with all the embedded individual skills that a national coach can bring together to make a champion team. That's if a new style of coaching and playing starts to be adopted now. Good luck with that though. First it has to be acknowledged that England's current, traditional approach to the game is way outmoded and won't ever again dominate international Rugby.

 

[Mattybuck]

You seem to have forgotten that England have done rather well in the JWC over the last few years.

You make some valid points and I accept that we always need to evolve and change, but it's not quite all doom and gloom.

You can get lucky in a generation and get a clutch of outstanding players. Sometimes it just happens that way.

But to be honest 4 good JWC in as many years would suggest that we are getting something right!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You seem to have forgotten that England have done rather well in the JWC over the last few years.

You make some valid points and I accept that we always need to evolve and change, but it's not quite all doom and gloom.

You can get lucky in a generation and get a clutch of outstanding players. Sometimes it just happens that way.

But to be honest 4 good JWC in as many years would suggest that we are getting something right!

It suggests we are getting something right at junior level, which operates differently to senior level.

 

[Maverick1987]

It suggests we are getting something right at junior level, which operates differently to senior level.

It's only the case of getting a world class coach and the transition should be fine . We have some really quality players coming through and we need someone to nurture that

 

[Wimero]

I'd be ****** if we went with Gatland tbh. I'd either prefer Rennie or Schmidt. Heck, I'd go with Deans or Cotter b4 Gatland.

Schmidt is current favourite to take over(4-1).Assuming Burt does go,and I don't think that's a given,then this is the guy who I would favour.
Anyone think Dean Ryan could do a job for us?