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England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

Manu's distribution has improved alot in a short amount of game time, still needs work on it but he is looking to use others.

Manu is though nowhere near ready for the 6N's and should be a target for Summer.

Dream summer tour backline for me ATM
9) Youngs
10) Slade
11) Nowell
12) Manu
13) Daly
14) Roko
15) Watson
 
Manu's distribution has improved alot in a short amount of game time, still needs work on it but he is looking to use others.

Manu is though nowhere near ready for the 6N's and should be a target for Summer.

Dream summer tour backline for me ATM
9) Youngs
10) Slade
11) Nowell
12) Manu
13) Daly
14) Roko
15) Watson

Agree with that fully, maybe swap Nowell and Watson around (I'd like to see them both get a shot at 15, think Nowell might possibly be a bit more suited with his better kicking game and slightly better support line running), and wouldn't be too upset with Joseph at 13 and Daly in the 23 shirt.
 
If he is serious about Tuilangi long term at 12 that could have further balance issues for the back line. Ideally we want a balance of distributors, strike runners, kickers and gain line breakers.

Joseph is great but is only an OK distributor/kicker (he has got better in this regard). With Brown at fullback offering little in distribution terms, this would leave us short of ball players, especially if Farrell is at 10 - he is just not as threatening as Ford.

I can see why he might want to get a gain line winner into the back line. It creates space, holds defenders and adds an offloading threat. He also seems to really like Ford and this may be why he wants a big 12 - Ford can afford to stand flatter with the threat of Tuilangi at 12, putting him right on the gain line, passing behind Thilangi when defenders are fixed or looping round off him. It also makes wingers coming off their wing more effective and makes a Ford break more likely.

If he sticks with Joseph then for me Goode has to come in at fullback as a distributor/kicker (Goode has also done quite a lot of speed work which seems to have improved his major flaw) - Brown is also likely to be too old as a back for the next WC. Alternatively Daly with his better distribution and kicking game replaces Jospeh. Or maybe Slade comes in at outside centre (he has virtually no experience of playing inside centre in spite of this being the spot he has been earmarked for and is going to get none At the Chiefs with Devoto and Hill). If he wants to play Ford at 10 Daly/Slade's long range goal kicking would also be useful. Ford is a fine goal kicker until he has to push his range. His % is actually slightly above Farrell

These changes could only take place over time. Daly has the complete skill set to be an outstanding international but sides that have changed too much too early have often struggled to build momentum.

A possible back line summer more probably Autumn internationals

Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Tuilangi, Daly (Joseph) Watson, Brown (Goode).
 
If he is serious about Tuilangi long term at 12 that could have further balance issues for the back line. Ideally we want a balance of distributors, strike runners, kickers and gain line breakers.

Joseph is great but is only an OK distributor/kicker (he has got better in this regard). With Brown at fullback offering little in distribution terms, this would leave us short of ball players, especially if Farrell is at 10 - he is just not as threatening as Ford.

I can see why he might want to get a gain line winner into the back line. It creates space, holds defenders and adds an offloading threat. He also seems to really like Ford and this may be why he wants a big 12 - Ford can afford to stand flatter with the threat of Tuilangi at 12, putting him right on the gain line, passing behind Thilangi when defenders are fixed or looping round off him. It also makes wingers coming off their wing more effective and makes a Ford break more likely.

If he sticks with Joseph then for me Goode has to come in at fullback as a distributor/kicker (Goode has also done quite a lot of speed work which seems to have improved his major flaw) - Brown is also likely to be too old as a back for the next WC. Alternatively Daly with his better distribution and kicking game replaces Jospeh. Or maybe Slade comes in at outside centre (he has virtually no experience of playing inside centre in spite of this being the spot he has been earmarked for and is going to get none At the Chiefs with Devoto and Hill). If he wants to play Ford at 10 Daly/Slade's long range goal kicking would also be useful. Ford is a fine goal kicker until he has to push his range. His % is actually slightly above Farrell

These changes could only take place over time. Daly has the complete skill set to be an outstanding international but sides that have changed too much too early have often struggled to build momentum.

A possible back line summer more probably Autumn internationals

Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Tuilangi, Daly (Joseph) Watson, Brown (Goode).

Very good analysis of our backline present & future.

I know a lot of people on this forum do not particularly like Alex Goode but I think it has more to do with the imbalance his presence causes on our bench. This is not his fault and I have been impressed with his club form again this season. I have seen a slight improvement in his straight line speed too.

The one player I would like to add to the mix is Dan Robson. He hasn't failed to impress every time I have watched him play for Gloucester or for Wasps this season. He has taken advantage of Joe Simpson's injury but his level is consistently high and has an all round game.

I found it Frustrating that he decided to move to wasps as Simpson has real England aspirations himself but if he can keep England's unofficial 3rd choice out he has a real chance. He is only 23 too - his potential is scary!
 
Agree on Goode - I still wouldn't have him as a bench option. Not with two other players who can play fullback.

I like Robson a lot. I actually think he and Simpson have got greater potential than Youngs/Care. It'll be interesting to see how he goes in the champions cup/later stages of the premiership. If he manages games effectively in that context, then he may get himself onto the plane for Australia.
 
Slade's long term future at Exeter will be at fly half. He'll interchange with Steenson (32 next month) for the next 2/3 seasons.

Also he is very good at outside centre but he is a much better 10. I think Exeter will manage him there in the same way Saracens use Farrell & Hodgson.
 
Slade's long term future at Exeter will be at fly half. He'll interchange with Steenson (32 next month) for the next 2/3 seasons.

Also he is very good at outside centre but he is a much better 10. I think Exeter will manage him there in the same way Saracens use Farrell & Hodgson.

I believe there's rumours going around that Steenson is going to Munster . Not sure how true they are though . Guess it depends if Keatley moves to London Irish
 
Very good analysis of our backline present & future.

I know a lot of people on this forum do not particularly like Alex Goode but I think it has more to do with the imbalance his presence causes on our bench. This is not his fault and I have been impressed with his club form again this season. I have seen a slight improvement in his straight line speed too.

The one player I would like to add to the mix is Dan Robson. He hasn't failed to impress every time I have watched him play for Gloucester or for Wasps this season. He has taken advantage of Joe Simpson's injury but his level is consistently high and has an all round game.

I found it Frustrating that he decided to move to wasps as Simpson has real England aspirations himself but if he can keep England's unofficial 3rd choice out he has a real chance. He is only 23 too - his potential is scary!

Or the fact he's looked slower than a bag of rocks with the tackling strength of a harnessed child whenever he's played for England.
 
The problem with the idea of playing Goode to offer us a second distributor that we're probably not getting in the backs is he has pretty much never offered that option in an England shirt. Maybe that's Lancaster being stupid, but I honestly think Cipriani offered more of that in a 20 minute cameo from full-back than Goode has in his entire England career to date.

The logic of getting a second playmaker in at full-back if we end up with Tuilagi-Joseph or a variation there of is very strong mind. I'm just not sure we've got one fit for purpose.
 
Cb6hydaW4AIJRLL.jpg:large


I deduce from that photo that these guys have been training:

Roko
Kvesic
LCD
Brookes
Hill
Yarde
Mullan
 
Seeing as no ones been released yet, surely everyone in the EPS has been training?
 
I deduce from that photo that these guys have been training:

Roko
Kvesic
LCD
Brookes
Hill
Yarde
Mullan

To be honest that doesn't mean much. It's not unheard of for players to get dragged along to training all the time but never get a bench slot (Callum Clark).
 
To be honest that doesn't mean much. It's not unheard of for players to get dragged along to training all the time but never get a bench slot (Callum Clark).

And TFFT; his 1 cap is 1 too many; should have been banned for life, not playing for England.
 
Forwards (13)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs (10)

Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
 
I bet all those people who moaned about Jones not picking certain players feel like dicks now!

Won 2, bringing in the youth slowly.

Job done
 
His job is to win 6N trophies and the World Cup. The job's a long way from done and I'm still awaiting proof it's going to work.

So no, not feeling like a dick, but thanks for playing.
 
Forwards (13)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs (10)

Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Slowly changing my mind about Jones, like the way he seems to be blending the side just wish he would get rid of Haskell and make George first choice hooker.
 
I bet all those people who moaned about Jones not picking certain players feel like dicks now!

Won 2, bringing in the youth slowly.

Job done

Beating Italy and Scotland isn't exactly new territory for England!

Do you think the plan was always to introduce youth over tournament, or due to performances? If planned, seems odd not to have used the two easiest games "more".
 
Beating Italy and Scotland isn't exactly new territory for England!

Do you think the plan was always to introduce youth over tournament, or due to performances? If planned, seems odd not to have used the two easiest games "more".

Well Scotland wasnt supposed to be and wasnt an easy game but the team had only been together a few days before the game so EJ wouldnt have had much idea about his team until now.
 

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