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England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

This kind of blindness for example

Would Haskell be in ther XV for any other top 10 nation?

Now look before someone accuses me of some sort of Haskell bromance I actually think he's a class A knob jockey. That said it's pure mentalness to think that he's not reasonably capable at the highest level. There also appear to be some people that would condemn him for knob jockeyness rather than give the guy any credit at all. Name your top 10 international teams and I'll name probably 4 or 5 where he'd start and a few more where he'd make the bench (you did say 15 but that's a bit restrictive). Forget brand Haskell for a minute. Why do Wasps pay this guy the cash? Why does Jones think he's worth a shot?

for example reading this:

"If you look at rugby generally around the world and particularly at Test rugby, you need to have someone who is consistently good at slowing down opposition ball," Jones said. "A seven's primary job is to ensure that on your ball you get quick ball on that first ruck. On the opposition's ball, they have to slow it down. Then the really good sevens like Pocock, McCaw, Smith and Kane see other opportunities to slow ball down.

"We have to pick a bloke who, at the moment, can do that primary job of first phase work. There are a couple of blokes in the squad who we think can do it, not on a long-term basis, but short-term. Haskell might be one of them. Clifford's best position is definitely going to be eight, but he might have to start off as a seven."

Eddie seems to have given a "primary job" two parts but he's an Aussie..That "primary job" of slowing the ball up starts with the collision. Putting the offensive team on the back foot is a huge part of stopping quick ball. In my opinion to claim otherwise is to deny some pretty basic facts. Is it easier for a team to get front foot ball moving forwards or desperately try to do it at or behind the gain line? Haskell is mighty effective near the set piece, especially off first phase. Running at him leads to not much positive for the attacking team. He's capable of the big hit and the choke. He's proficient enough at the jackal that he can't be ignored. Not good enough mind as Jones himself hints at. But from what we have he's not utterly useless.

I honestly don't see why Haskell gets the opprobrium that Robshaw largely escaped for being equally ineffective. Apart from the fact that Christopher is obviously a nicer chap!


on edit "4 or 5" is a bit bold. Maybe 3. Including us!
 
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Because Robshaw is the blindside and he's playing like a blindside, while Haskell is the openside and is also playing like a blindside. Jones might say he's playing like an openside, and you might, but there's a lot of people not agreeing with that. I don't.

When Robshaw was the openside, he was getting a lot of this criticism as well. This is not a new phenomenon. The guy in the openside shirt gets flak when perceived to not be playing like an openside. Fair enough if you disagree with the perception, but if you think it's about anything else, you're mistaken.

Also, Haskell being worth a lot to Wasps has nothing to do with his value to England, and presuming the top 10 nations are the Tier 1 nations, then at best he gets into England, Scotland, Italy and France. And I don't think he'd break Cotter's two opensides mould, I prefer Zanni + Parisse for Italy (and Hask's not a test openside) and... actually I haven't been following France closely, so who knows. He's very definitely not benching for NZ, SA, Wales... I presume not Argentina either, probably not Australia, definitely not Ireland neither I think about it...

... and neither's Robshaw either.
 
I honestly don't see why Haskell gets the opprobrium that Robshaw largely escaped for being equally ineffective. Apart from the fact that Christopher is obviously a nicer chap!
It isn't about what Haskell did, it's about what he didn't do.

Imagine you play bass in a band. Everyone in the band has to go away and record their part. You go away and record the drummer's part. Everyone gets back together and there is no bass track, just two sets of drums. Don't matter which drumming piece is better, you let the band down by not fulfilling your task.

So it is with Haskell. His failure to adequately fulfil the 7 shirt leaves the team vulnerable at the breakdown. (And breakdown has been our biggest weakness.) I do agree that he's made a better impact than Robshaw. Form-wise, I'd have him ahead of Robshaw in the 6 shirt. But tbh, I'd rather ditch both and have a new partnership.

(Peat said it a lot more eloquently than me. :p)
 
I do agree that he's made a better impact than Robshaw. Form-wise, I'd have him ahead of Robshaw in the 6 shirt. But tbh, I'd rather ditch both and have a new partnership.

Less dumb penalties given away, more turnovers made... it's something I'm going to go to war on (unless I have nothing better to do today) but there's some decent arguments for Robshaw currently being the better of the two.

(Peat said it a lot more eloquently than me. :p)

Banned for sucking up!

(thanks) ^_^
 
Looked like (and starting to be reported like) Josh Beaumont dislocated his shoulder earlier.

Who would be called up to replace?
Is he viewed solely as an 8 or does Jones consider him lock cover as well?
Ben Morgan to come back in?
Waldrom?
 
Straight shoulder dislocation isn't necessarily a serious injury afaik.

Unless he's done his AC joint.
 
That just seems crazy to me. I've only ever done a knee, though, so can't speak from any experience, but I would've thought you'd need at least a few weeks before putting it through contact again.
 
That just seems crazy to me. I've only ever done a knee, though, so can't speak from any experience, but I would've thought you'd need at least a few weeks before putting it through contact again.

Normally depends on whether anything was damaged as it came out. Not uncommon for it to be a relatively quick recovery!
 
Exactly. A dislocation isn't an injury in and of itself - it sometimes causes an injury, sometimes it doesn't.

If he's hurt his shoulder it's probably an AC injury - which will probably be anywhere from 6 weeks plus, depending on how much Sale's staff care about him being genuinely 100% healed.
 
Luther Burrell has been called up for Devoto
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:





I'll go get my sick bucket.
 
Reading the news there have been a load of other players called up as well including Sam Hill and Yarde.

An interesting question to be posed though, after two victories, why would we want to alter the starting lineup too much? We have our biggest test against Ireland so surely we need to keep what little continuity we have.

In the flip side the backline isn't exactly flowing freely but then what do you do at12? There isn't one candidate whose ready for international rugby at 12, Farrell seems to be the only option really (which is a disappointment).

Jones looks to have brought in itoje and Clifford successfully, let's hope at least one of them starts.

Maybe he will wait until the summer to sort the backline?
 
Reading the news there have been a load of other players called up as well including Sam Hill and Yarde.

An interesting question to be posed though, after two victories, why would we want to alter the starting lineup too much? We have our biggest test against Ireland so surely we need to keep what little continuity we have.

In the flip side the backline isn't exactly flowing freely but then what do you do at12? There isn't one candidate whose ready for international rugby at 12, Farrell seems to be the only option really (which is a disappointment).

Jones looks to have brought in itoje and Clifford successfully, let's hope at least one of them starts.

Maybe he will wait until the summer to sort the backline?

I think the whole squad has got back together haven't they ? That's what they always do . Then Eddie will release the ones he doesn't need back to their clubs Wednesday and he will pick his team Thursday
 
I think the whole squad has got back together haven't they ? That's what they always do . Then Eddie will release the ones he doesn't need back to their clubs Wednesday and he will pick his team Thursday

Yes, except they're released Tuesday evening.

No Tuilagi. Probably sensible. The rumour is Jones won't tinker with his backline until he's decided whether he can make Tuilagi a 12.
 
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