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England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

Tallshort said:
This.

He will make a hit while wearing his bright scrum cap so everyone seems him and takes notice but otherwise what else does he offer? Good at the breakdown? High tackle count? good line out option? or average at best?

Reminds me of Mickey Skinner talking in an interview once, England were playing Austraila and he wanted to be selected a head of Mike Teague for the next game against New Zealand I think. His plan was not to tackle more, or carry more its was simply to chase Michael Lynagh around the pitch so every time the camera was on the Aussie playmaker it was also on him.
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Ah Mike Teague, now he was a player. He'd walk into the current England XV.
 
Wonder if Haskell has ever been tempted to move to lock for the twilight of his career like Rodber did? If you have jumpers like Itoje in the back row it could be an option. He has immense power and experience and the instincts of a back rower without the pressure to perform like one. Pretty much the same size as Brad Thorn.
 
None so blind as those that will not see.

It's already been pointed out but Haskell is a bit marmite. So people aren't listening. Re-watch the games and look at what he's doing. Not what you'd like to say he's been doing but what he has. Haskell is our most destructive tackler. He's been sent out there to stop people and he's doing his job very well which is why Jones is probably happy with him. Is he operating as a jackaling linking 7? Is he ****. Is he using his meat mountain abilities to smash people? Yep and effectively too. Judging Haskell against another standard is akin to judging a fish on its tree climbing abilities.
 
Judging Haskell as a supposedly destructive 6 - he's not as good as I believe other players we have available are/could be.
 
In the same way it's compulsory to praise Itoje to the skies, so it's de rigeur to knock Haskell. Sure he's No McCaw or Kaino but 64 caps suggests the bloke offers something beyond ripped abs. Maybe it's partly a perception thing as we English don't like the tall poppy.
 
Old Hooker said:
In the same way it's compulsory to praise Itoje to the skies, so it's de rigeur to knock Haskell. Sure he's No McCaw or Kaino but 64 caps suggests the bloke offers something beyond ripped abs. Maybe it's partly a perception thing as we English don't like the tall poppy.
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He's not the tall poppy though. McCaw, Kaino, they're tall poppies and as you said yourself, he's not them.

Haskell's an alright to good international flanker. That's a hell of an achievement, I don't want to knock it too much. But he's never going to be the difference between winning a Grand Slam or not, be the difference between beating a SH side or not, or be the player that has non-English fans all jealous and impressed. Or, at least, he never has been, and it would be incredible if he suddenly became that player now.

And it's depressing as all hell that such a player has got 60+ England caps. And that he'll keep adding to those caps when it's players like him that will have to be replaced by actual tall poppies if England are to win the games and trophies people want them to win.

Maybe I'll holding him to an unreasonably high standard - but the problem certainly isn't that he's a tall poppy, it's quite the opposite. And while I can't speak for everyone, I feel pretty sure I'm talking for at least a few.
 
Yoshimitsu said:
It's already been pointed out but Haskell is a bit marmite. So people aren't listening. Re-watch the games and look at what he's doing. Not what you'd like to say he's been doing but what he has. Haskell is our most destructive tackler. He's been sent out there to stop people and he's doing his job very well which is why Jones is probably happy with him. Is he operating as a jackaling linking 7? Is he ****. Is he using his meat mountain abilities to smash people? Yep and effectively too. Judging Haskell against another standard is akin to judging a fish on its tree climbing abilities.
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"If you look at rugby generally around the world and particularly at Test rugby, you need to have someone who is consistently good at slowing down opposition ball," Jones said. "A seven's primary job is to ensure that on your ball you get quick ball on that first ruck. On the opposition's ball, they have to slow it down. Then the really good sevens like Pocock, McCaw, Smith and Kane see other opportunities to slow ball down.

"We have to pick a bloke who, at the moment, can do that primary job of first phase work. There are a couple of blokes in the squad who we think can do it, not on a long-term basis, but short-term. Haskell might be one of them. Clifford's best position is definitely going to be eight, but he might have to start off as a seven.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...w-at-openside-flanker-for-England-opener.html
 
TRF_Peat said:
He's not the tall poppy though. McCaw, Kaino, they're tall poppies and as you said yourself, he's not them.

Haskell's an alright to good international flanker. That's a hell of an achievement, I don't want to knock it too much. But he's never going to be the difference between winning a Grand Slam or not, be the difference between beating a SH side or not, or be the player that has non-English fans all jealous and impressed. Or, at least, he never has been, and it would be incredible if he suddenly became that player now.

And it's depressing as all hell that such a player has got 60+ England caps. And that he'll keep adding to those caps when it's players like him that will have to be replaced by actual tall poppies if England are to win the games and trophies people want them to win.

Maybe I'll holding him to an unreasonably high standard - but the problem certainly isn't that he's a tall poppy, it's quite the opposite. And while I can't speak for everyone, I feel pretty sure I'm talking for at least a few.
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I was using tall poppy in the sense that he sticks his head above the parapet, has actively cultivated a profile and has plenty to say for himself. Nothing to do with his playing ability about which I mostly agree with you. But I do think his public image skews some people's opinions of him.
 
Old Hooker said:
I was using tall poppy in the sense that he sticks his head above the parapet, has actively cultivated a profile and has plenty to say for himself. Nothing to do with his playing ability about which I mostly agree with you. But I do think his public image skews some people's opinions of him.
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Oh.

Well.

That post was unnecessary then.

In fairness... while Haskell is a grade A nincompoop, and that does skew it for some, I'd like to believe most here react to his ability.

Let's be honest here gentlemen. Most of us would sell our mothers down the river if it meant England winning 3 of the next 5 World Cups. Overlooking the fact that Haskell is very volubly in love with himself? Pah. We]ve got a sodding Australian in charge, there's nothing we wouldn't do, nothing I tells ya...
 
Bath to bin Ford and bring in Rennie?
Can't imagine B.Craig is very happy about the returns on his investment so far
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Bath to bin Ford and bring in Rennie?
Can't imagine B.Craig is very happy about the returns on his investment so far
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This season has certainly been a step backwards but I'm unsure new coach will make that much of a difference it's the players that are looking at sea nd out of form ore than anything else.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Bath to bin Ford and bring in Rennie?
Can't imagine B.Craig is very happy about the returns on his investment so far
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Don't really give a **** tbh... I'm quite far past being able to care about most things premiership related.

I wasn't thinking about anyone in particular.
 
Peat - on JJ, of course it's unrealistic to expect him to shine with the crap ball England's pack/the 10-12 were producing. I'm talking about a lower level of threat though, creating a tiny bit of space for himself, maybe just getting on the outside shoulder to gain an extra couple of yards in the tackle, that sort of thing.

For the record, I do think that with good ball to work with we wouldn't be worried about him, and Daly wouldn't be pulling up trees in his place.
 

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