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England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

Jones is widely quoted as saying that England players aren't fit enough. I find that incredible.

Is that reflection on the previous regime?

Is he picking the wrong players?

Does that mean he's on a collision course with the clubs over conditioning, player workload and style of play?
 
Jones is widely quoted as saying that England players aren't fit enough. I find that incredible.

Is that reflection on the previous regime?

Is he picking the wrong players?

Does that mean he's on a collision course with the clubs over conditioning, player workload and style of play?


Would that necessarily be a bad thing? It's possible he's right, in which case, maybe what's needed is a kick up the jacksy. I'm not saying he's right, just that the idea shouldn't be dismissed.
 
http://therugbytimesnews.co.uk/2016/02/ ... -fly-half/<!-- m -->

THE Rugby Times understands that Owen Farrell is Eddie Jones' long term first choice fly half, and that the make-up of the England back-line is reliant on the return to form of Manu Tuilagi.

The Scotland game last weekend was seen by Jones as a last chance for many of the more established England players, with Chris Robshaw and Joe Marler being two players under the spotlight, while George Ford would not have made the team had Exeter's Henry Slade, whom Eddie also rates very highly, been fit.

Ford found himself at fly half to accommodate Owen Farrell at 12 in the absence of Slade and Manu Tuilagi, who Jones believes can be England's answer to Ma'a Nonu.

The Australian is still undecided on a long term centre strategy, which centre's around whether to play Tuilagi or Sam Hill as a ball-carrying twelve, or whether to play his traditionally preferred 2nd 5/8, likely to be Slade or Ollie Devoto.

It is believed that he is waiting to assess Tuilagi in the England 12 shirt before making a decision, but is hoping to shape his team around the Leicester centre.

That decision will likely not come until the summer when the England head coach will have a much clearer picture of his squad.

Jones also sees Jonathon Joseph and Elliot Daly as interchangeable at 13, but not able to play together in the same midfield, and is not willing to play a 'left and right' style centre combination.

The Rugby Times also understands that Matt Kvesic is being sidelined due to a perceived lack of ball-carrying prowess, while rising star Maro Itoje is being primed for a spot in the team to play Italy.

Jones has said he wants his team 'to give Italy a good hiding', by playing with ball-in-hand at a quick tempo, but believes that the current squad 'won't be fit enough to play Australia (in June) on hard tracks, definitely'.

However, he is 'a hundred per cent confident' that he can get his players up to speed, working in tandem with the Premiership clubs, by the time they depart for the three test tour down under.

He said: "Fitness is not straight-out fitness, it is game-specific fitness.

"The only way you get that is to train specifically for rugby, you don't get it through doing other things.

"We will pick up a considerable amount and by the time we have finished this Six Nations we will be a fitter side than we are now."
 
The Rugby Times is combing Rugby Rebels for its news I see...


Old Hooker -

It doesn't reflect well on the past regime, which famously only hit on fitness as the key in the last year or so of its time after trying to bulk everyone up.

I doubt there's many fitter EQPs around.

It doesn't reflect well on the AP either and he may well be on a collision course with the clubs.
 
I really hate the comments about Kvesic... So what if he isn't a great carrier? If you have Vunipola x2, Brookes, George, Itoje, Ewers, Launchbury and Tuilagi you have plenty of carriers already but not a single person who is dominant at the breakdown. It realyl baffles me, a guy who's strength is an area England are weak in and who's weakness is an area England don't struggle with so much, surely that is part of the definition of a balanced team? Having players in who can compliment each others strengths and weaknesses so the team as a whole doesn't have them?

Leaving Kvesic out doesn't improve our strengths much at all but leaves our weakness wide open to be exploited, as it was time and time again at the world cup.
 
I really hate the comments about Kvesic... So what if he isn't a great carrier? If you have Vunipola x2, Brookes, George, Itoje, Ewers, Launchbury and Tuilagi you have plenty of carriers already but not a single person who is dominant at the breakdown. It realyl baffles me, a guy who's strength is an area England are weak in and who's weakness is an area England don't struggle with so much, surely that is part of the definition of a balanced team? Having players in who can compliment each others strengths and weaknesses so the team as a whole doesn't have them?

Leaving Kvesic out doesn't improve our strengths much at all but leaves our weakness wide open to be exploited, as it was time and time again at the world cup.

Agree that we suck at the breakdown, but disagree that carrying isn't a weakness. Of the players you mention only three are regular starters when fit, Tuilagi is a back and Launchbury is not what I would think of as a top-end carrier. In terms of carriers in the forwards, we frequently only have Billy Vunipola and it shows.

I agree we desperately need some speed to the breakdown, and turnover prowess once there, but we also need more close-quarters carrying.
 
I can understand complaining about Kvesic not being able to carry effectively. But when the alternatives are Robshaw or Haskell who despite being larger struggle to ever show impressive metres made stats I struggle to understand the reasoning.

Surely if you combine Kvesic with a proven carrier that would give you the best of both worlds. Someone like a Ewers or Itoje at 6 would seem to be ideal for that role. Eddie Jones seems to be making all the right noises until it comes to team announcement.
 
I can understand complaining about Kvesic not being able to carry effectively. But when the alternatives are Robshaw or Haskell who despite being larger struggle to ever show impressive metres made stats I struggle to understand the reasoning.

Surely if you combine Kvesic with a proven carrier that would give you the best of both worlds. Someone like a Ewers or Itoje at 6 would seem to be ideal for that role. Eddie Jones seems to be making all the right noises until it comes to team announcement.

What it comes down to is everyone can't do everything. You can come up with a good reason not to pick any individual because rugby is such a diverse game (Parisse can't kick for one thing), but when the entire team lacks one skill which every single successful rugby team has (ability to turn the ball over), then surely you have to bend over backwards to find a way to accommodate it if you can. It's not like Kvesic is a total joke in every other way, he's a pretty rounded rugby player from what I've seen at Gloucester, decent pace and hands, not like he couldn't be fairy effective as a link man (which is arguably equivalent to being a carrier - creating an extra man / getting over the gainline and clearing the ball quickly are both pretty reliable ways of gaining yards).
 
not like he couldn't be fairy effective as a link man

Chabal will always hold that position:

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Robshaw and Haskell carried like **** vs Scotland.
Especially Haskell, who was then singled out for praise.
Starting to think EJ is full of ****.
 
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Kvesic won't help every other English player be better at the breakdown. That comes from better coaching.

I think done people on here don't want to admit it but kvesic can't be a brilliant international in waiting if two coaches don't look at him.
 
Kvesic won't help every other English player be better at the breakdown. That comes from better coaching.

I think done people on here don't want to admit it but kvesic can't be a brilliant international in waiting if two coaches don't look at him.

Yeah starting to get that myself, he looks good in the premiership but there must be a reason he keeps getting over looked, it's not like Jones doesn't know what an international 7 looks like.
 
Kvesic won't help every other English player be better at the breakdown. That comes from better coaching.

I think done people on here don't want to admit it but kvesic can't be a brilliant international in waiting if two coaches don't look at him.

188cm and 104 kg - Could that be the issue? Otherwise I'm out of ideas.. especially considering Clifford has overtaken him in the pecking order.

Clearly though he is in EJ's thinking. Can only imagine he's been told clearly what he's to work on (if it's a technical thing) and he'll be in the reckoning.
 
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188cm and 104 kg - Could that be the issue?
Guess who weighs in at 188cm and 107kg?

I'll give you a clue, he's just retired, having won the Webb Ellis for the 2nd time running.
 
Yeah starting to get that myself, he looks good in the premiership but there must be a reason he keeps getting over looked, it's not like Jones doesn't know what an international 7 looks like.

I know his turnover stats are high but I wonder how his other stats look compared to salvi, louw etc on meters conceived in tackle, rucks hit , all the things we don't see or notice as fans.
 
What the heck?
Kvesic is a way better carrier than Haskell/Robshaw.
Haskell/Robshaw offer nothing in the carry. They are embarrassingly weak in that area considering how big each of them are. Kvesic might not burst through tackles regularly, but he has a powerful leg drive. It comes with the territory of being built for the breakdown: exceptional leg and core strength gives you the ability to get over the ball quickly. He would be a step up in the carrying department on Robshaw/Haskell.
Honestly, if Jones believes Haskell-for-Kvesic is the significant step-up England need to get the forwards carrying game going, he's barking.

1. Vunipola 2. George 3. Cole/Brookes 4. Launchbury 5. Itoje 6. Vunipola 7. Kvesic 8. Beaumont
16. Hartley 17. Marler 18. Cole/Brookes 19. Kruis 20. Clifford/Ewers

EZ PZ.
 
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