England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[LiRFCMatt]

Some of you are thinking that England will "rack up" a big score against Italy.
It might not be as easy as we think, as last Saturday the Italians played some of the best rugby I've ever seen them play.
OK, a win is to be expected, and justifiably so, but if England go into this match thinking it's done and dusted, they could be in for a surprise.

This Italian side beat Romania by 10 points in the World Cup, over the past 21 games against Italy, we've been averaging over 40 points, and I believe that's happened the last couple of times we've played them. It should be a blow out against an inexperienced squad. They have Parisse, we have a squad with depth the Italians could only dream of.

 

[JJFlash]

This Italian side beat Romania by 10 points in the World Cup, over the past 21 games against Italy, we've been averaging over 40 points, and I believe that's happened the last couple of times we've played them. It should be a blow out against an inexperienced squad. They have Parisse, we have a squad with depth the Italians could only dream of.

Sure, it should be a blow out, as you say, and there's no comparison with the depth of player resources, but nevertheless, the players' approach to the game will have to be right and I'm sure EJ will ensure that it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be chuffed to bits if the victory margin were to be 40+ points, but let's not understimate the Eyeties!

 

[Peat]

Based purely on back row balance I'd have Kvesic and Clifford into that back row. Realistically, two debutants (effectively) at 6 and 7 is a recipe for disaster, so it's one or t'other. I've always been pro-Kvesic (in a perfect world he'd already have 10-20 caps by now ant this wouldn't be an issue), however the way we look to be trying to play maybe the turnovers are less important than the carrying, maybe CLifford is the way to go.

I think you overstate the risk although I'll admit to preferring to not take it myself.

Rumour is Kvesic didn't make the Scotland team as he's seen as not offering enough ball in hand - whether the breakdown or carrying is seen as more important will affect his chances a lot. Personally I think he needs to accept that sacrifices need to be made and a breakdown guy needs to go in.

Haskshaw/Kvesic/Vunipola with Clifford on the bench would be my preferred unit for Italy, but we will see.

 

[Mumbles119]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...es-says-england-must-improve-at-the-breakdown

Eddie states the breakdown is one of the areas that needs improvement. Not focusing on turnovers only, but the speed of the second guy to the tackle area.
However, he does go on to say he sees the squad staying pretty much the same with only the 'batting order' changing.

I would guess this means Clifford starting instead of Robshaw.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kvesic and Daly released back to their clubs, which is gutting.

Eddie says that he will pick his side based on the conditions in Rome and if it's warm and a dry pitch (as expected) he will go for a faster pack:
Itoje, Clifford and Josh to start, then? All faster than the players that started last week.
Possibly
4. Kruis,
5. Itoje,
6. Clifford,
7. Haskell,
8. Josh

19. Lawes/Launch,
20. Vunipola
?

Edit:
Just read the above article:

Jones has reshaped the England back-row since taking over, moving Robshaw to No 6 and James Haskell to No 7.

Hahahahahahahha

 

[Peat]

Ah well.

And I doubt we'll see that many changes Olyy.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think Beaumont should have a good chance of starting just by looking at how much Binny was limping at the end. I think he could do with a rest before the really tough matches kick in. Would love to see Clifford get a start at 6 and of course Itoje as I am a big fan of his. It's just a shame (imo) that George seems to have 0 chance of starting now that Hartley is captain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And I doubt we'll see that many changes Olyy.

Agree, but it's fun to dream.

 

[Peat]

Agree, but it's fun to dream.

Each to their own. Me, I find it's the hope that kills you.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

As much as I'd like to believe that "form" is like a pair of lost specs........

Lots of people saying bench Ford he's out of form and fair enough I see that.

But we're playing Italy next and looking to rack up a score (nice to admit it for a change). So what's more likely racking up a score with an in-form Farrell or out-of-form Ford, remember we're not really looking at defensive prowess in this game we should be able to manage Italy well enough on that front regardless of who plays at 10. More importantly isn't this exactly the kind of try to fill your boots game that Ford may have the chance to find some form in. It'll probably be the least pressured game he's played in for months and with Bath's position in the table and England's next three games the least pressured one he's likely to play for some time.

Just saying I'd start with Ford it's the Ireland and Wales games we don't want him to go searching for his form in when Farrell is deemed not good enough with 20 mins on the clock and more than one try needed.

Honestly? At the moment there's a better chance with Farrell. He's at ease with himself and is playing out of his skin for a Saracen's team that looks like the model for how England will be playing. Ford is playing frankly horribly. For all the glimpses of brilliance he's at sea and personally I wouldn't have him in the squad let alone starting. I've stated my case on this before Farrell and Ford are chalk and cheese and require entirely different personnel along side them to maximise their advantages. Compromising Farrell at 12 is unnecessary and unhelpful to both in my view it also lessens the chances of Ford being able to use what skills he has. Farrell is too busy playing 10 but standing at 12.

If Ford can't hack the pressure at Bath then I'm afraid he's got Hodgson's disease. That's a real problem. Hoping England sort that out for him is optimistic at best.

It it were me Ford wouldn't be starting any games until he's remembered how to defend.

 

[MarkyH]

We all dream of changes... But bye bye again Kvesic and Daly. It would be great to see them play, this was the game to really try them out... At least put Daly on the bench instead of Goode... We don't expect miracles, just give us hope

 

[Peat]

If Ford's confidence is destroyed, and Farrell at ease, then I'd expect Ford's kicking percentages to look markedly worse than Farrell's. Farrell however is on 73.3 recurring, while Ford is on 77.27.

I'm not certain which one of them I'd prefer. I think I'd probably be happiest if they both got injured and we had to call up Cipriani and Burns. But I think there is an argument for backing Ford to come good, providing his confidence is still there and he's doing things at training. And I think he still has some confidence there. I don't particularly care about their domestic form. The only reason I've got for backing Farrell ahead of him is defence really.

All completely irrelevant though is I'm 99.9pc certain we'll see Ford-Fazlet again and Fazlet will get the nod when Tuilagi returns and is played at 12.

 

[Hulkster]

What on earth was the point in calling up Kvesic for a day then sending him back again!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Ford's confidence is destroyed, and Farrell at ease, then I'd expect Ford's kicking percentages to look markedly worse than Farrell's. Farrell however is on 73.3 recurring, while Ford is on 77.27.

I'm not certain which one of them I'd prefer. I think I'd probably be happiest if they both got injured and we had to call up Cipriani and Burns. But I think there is an argument for backing Ford to come good, providing his confidence is still there and he's doing things at training. And I think he still has some confidence there. I don't particularly care about their domestic form. The only reason I've got for backing Farrell ahead of him is defence really.

All completely irrelevant though is I'm 99.9pc certain we'll see Ford-Fazlet again and Fazlet will get the nod when Tuilagi returns and is played at 12.

I've always been a massive ford fan and a Farrell hater but this season is back Farrell. He looks much more comfortable in attack with ball in hand and if he continues to improve will make a fully rounded 10.

I can't believe I'm saying it but he has to start for England. We just need to find him a decent 12.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How far off is Hill?
He's back playing for Chiefs now isn't he?


Such a shame that he got his injury when he did - he should have gotten some game time from the bench last week and started vs Italy.

 

[MarkyH]

How far off is Hill?
He's back playing for Chiefs now isn't he?


Such a shame that he got his injury when he did - he should have gotten some game time from the bench last week and started vs Italy.

I'm sure he's back, not sure how he is playing though... probably as solid as ever and would be a great shout at IC !

 

[Tony Manx]

Kvesic and Cips might as well take up a French contract!!

 

[johnmac99]

What on earth was the point in calling up Kvesic for a day then sending him back again!

That's a bloody good question

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

EJ is the ultimate troll.

 

[TommyV]

I'd like to see:

1 Mako Vunipola - For ball-carrying if we're serious about putting points on the board.
2 Dylan Hartley
3 Dan Cole

4 Joe Launchbury
5 George Kruis

6 James Haskell
8 Billy Vunipola - Hope he isn't over-used though as could do with a rest really.
7 Jack Clifford - See him long-term as a #6 and would have started him there and Kvesic here.

9 Danny Care
10 George Ford

12 Ollie Devoto - Not a huge fan but a much better option at #12 than Farrell.
13 Jonathan Joseph

11 Jack Nowell
15 Mike Brown
14 Anthony Watson

16 Joe Marler
17 Jamie George - Would like to see him get a fair chunk of playing time.
18 Paul Hill
19 Josh Beaumont - Would like to see him get a fair chunk of playing time.
20 Maro Itoje - Would like to see him get a fair chunk of playing time.

21 Ben Youngs
22 Owen Farrell
23 Alex Goode - If we have to...

--

I think we could see that back-row, however he'll probably stick with Marler to start and Mako off the bench and probably Farrell @ 12 again.