England 2024/25

[BPM]

Yes, but I'd also add that Esterhuizen's distribution skills are generally very underrated.

Part of what made him so good for us was the fact that defenders assumed they knew what was coming. Often they were right but he also did a great job of creating space for others and making passes that were unexpected.

The bottom line is that the best attack keeps defenders guessing. A good, hard carrying centre can be very effective but the best ones have more to their game. Nonu and SBW being good (albeit different) examples.

 

[Geordie]

He isn't small. He's about 6'3" and pretty well built. He's just not a bosh type of centre. More in the Twelvetrees mould.

Physical size is a way down my priority list when assessing backs, but I don't think our backs are exceptionally small. We're just trying to play a power game which doesn't actually make the best of what we have.

If size is your preference, Atkinson, Hartley, Butt and Beard are all big men. Roebuck too.

I honestly would never have put him at that size, I looked him up and he was listed at around 5'10. I stand corrected but still maintain we have a small backline compared to many of the top tier teams at the moment.

Physical size and power is massively important in the game and in the backs you need a balanced amount to compliment your skilled speedsters.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yes, but I'd also add that Esterhuizen's distribution skills are generally very underrated.

Part of what made him so good for us was the fact that defenders assumed they knew what was coming. Often they were right but he also did a great job of creating space for others and making passes that were unexpected.

The bottom line is that the best attack keeps defenders guessing. A good, hard carrying centre can be very effective but the best ones have more to their game. Nonu and SBW being good (albeit different) examples.

This, it's why I never personally rated Jamie Roberts. He was a very powerful carrier but that's all he was. He had a year or 2 being very effective but once teams realised he had nothing else to his game, he was frequently getting stopped dead. He had no kicking, passing or offloading game to make the defence think he was going to do anything other than run right at them.

Unfortunately this outdated type of 12 seems to be what England want with a similarly limited gameplan...

 

[Geordie]

This, it's why I never personally rated Jamie Roberts. He was a very powerful carrier but that's all he was. He had a year or 2 being very effective but once teams realised he had nothing else to his game, he was frequently getting stopped dead. He had no kicking, passing or offloading game to make the defence think he was going to do anything other than run right at them.

Unfortunately this outdated type of 12 seems to be what England want with a similarly limited gameplan...

I dont think they do.

i think want a player at 12 who has good hands but someone who also has some physicality to truck it up when needed as most teams have.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Size isn't the be all and end all but manipulating defences is a hell of a lot easier when you have a carrier capable of taking 3 tacklers out of the game. That's the simple truth of it and pretending otherwise is just naive.

 

[BPM]

Of course. If Andre Esterhuizen was English he'd be walking in to our team at 12.

One option I don't think I've ever seen mooted is Oscar Beard switching to 12. If Lennox is off, it would make sense for Quins to do it and as a big, physical guy who loves an offload, it strikes me as a potentially good move. Not so much an Esterhuizen clone, more like a Jordie Barrett type.

It's not unfamiliar for him either: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/il...on-hopeful-on-dream-debut-despite-autumn-snub

Moreover, from his POV, it would probably put him right in the frame for England. He's already in the mix as a 13 but as a 12, I think he'd be in the box seat.

 

[Geordie]

Of course. If Andre Esterhuizen was English he'd be walking in to our team at 12.

One option I don't think I've ever seen mooted is Oscar Beard switching to 12. If Lennox is off, it would make sense for Quins to do it and as a big, physical guy who loves an offload, it strikes me as a potentially good move. Not so much an Esterhuizen clone, more like a Jordie Barrett type.

It's not unfamiliar for him either: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/il...on-hopeful-on-dream-debut-despite-autumn-snub

Moreover, from his POV, it would probably put him right in the frame for England. He's already in the mix as a 13 but as a 12, I think he'd be in the box seat.

I rate Beard highly...and as you say has a nice balance of pace, skills and size. Really one to watch.

 

[BPM]

Yeah. I wasn't totally convinced to begin with but this season he's really upped his performance level and consistency. I definitely see him as a future England player now which wasn't always the case.