England 2024/25

[Rugbyfan564]

Suspect with the enhanced contracts they will be pressure to play as many of those 17 as possible. Clubs are not going to be keen on RFU control over players they not actually using. As well as not wasting money when under pressure having to pay players to do nothing.

England’s ‘landmark deal’ is failing to have desired impact

Professional Game Partnership was supposed to be game-changing for Steve Borthwick’s team but so far it’s proven underwhelming

www.telegraph.co.uk

Bill Sweeney and Tom Ilube told RFU jobs ‘not tenable’ by former chief executive

Francis Baron says there is outrage over CEO and chairman receiving pay rises while overseeing skyrocketing debts and falling TV revenues

www.telegraph.co.uk

Alex Mitchell on course for Six Nations following complicated neck injury

Northampton Saint has returned to training and should be back playing long before England kick off campaign against Ireland in February

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Daly (useful utility cover)

5 years ago, maybe - think we(/Borthwick) really need to move past the idea of Daly

Speed gone, goal kicking gone, injury record poor - he can play multiple positions but not as good as others can play singular ones
Better to have a winger or centre there, because Smith can (and probably will) cover 15 from the pitch and in your scenario you've got Freeman who can shift out one

Feel like the media narrative of "CANNON OF A LEFT BOOT" is what's carrying him, despite his long range efforts being poor recently

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

5 years ago, maybe - think we(/Borthwick) really need to move past the idea of Daly

Speed gone, goal kicking gone, injury record poor - he can play multiple positions but not as good as others can play singular ones
Better to have a winger or centre there, because Smith can (and probably will) cover 15 from the pitch and in your scenario you've got Freeman who can shift out one

Feel like the media narrative of "CANNON OF A LEFT BOOT" is what's carrying him, despite his long range efforts being poor recently

Yeah, wasn't sure on that one. No complaints if we move on.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Isn't Hendy a bit of a beanpole?
Rapid but I'd never associate size with him

Looking forward to the 6N, meeting the target of 4 wins is unlikely. Ire away first up is the obvious banana skin although we do have 3 at home and Wal should be beatable anywhere.

Who would we like to see? I'd go:

1. Genge. A bit reluctantly, but who else?

2. LCD. It'll be George

3. Stuart. Improving.

4. Itoje

5. Martin

6. Chessum

7. Underhill

8. CCS

We can talk about footballers and balance in the pack all we want but it's clear that serious physicality still matters at this level. This lot should be able to provide some go forward while hitting very hard in defence. Hard to think of a much better set piece unit although George's darts are probably still marginally better than LCD's and Isiekwe's probably our top guy in the air although Chessum returning largely covers that off.

9. Mitchell

10. M Smith

11. Sleightholme

12. Lawrence. Reluctantly, but who else?

13. Freeman. Punt, but worth trying

14. IFW

15. Furbank, although far from convinced.

Not totally sure on bench but maybe something like: Baxter, Langdon, Davison (let AOF loose next year), Earl, T Curry, JvP, F Smith, Daly (useful utility cover).

Also assumes everyone's fit which is unlikely.

I like the bench you have chosen to be honest. Bench lacked any firepower this autumn and it is increasingly becoming a bigger, more important part of test matches. I would have Spencer in for JVP, feel like Spencer didn't really do anything wrong to deserve being dropped, JVP doesn't look good at test level IMO. Daley on the bench offers some experience, would like to see more of Roebuck this 6n. Like Freeman but not sure about him at 13, solid team though.

 

[Geordie]

Isn't Hendy a bit of a beanpole?
Rapid but I'd never associate size with him

6'3 and 15 stone...and will easily add another 1 to 2 stone on that frame.
But we'll see how his game develops with Saints. Scored a try on the weekend v Coventry using his power and pace.

Plenty of options...we're relying on SB to identify the right ones for the journey

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

6'3 and 15 stone...and will easily add another 1 to 2 stone on that frame.

I think that build's pretty much spot on TBH. Bit of height for the high ball, weight should mean he's solid enough in contact and be able to bust tackles once he gets going. But not so heavy as to reduce his pace, or probably more importantly, agility. I'm all for our backs being powerful but for those out wide that should be a secondary trick.

Just one thought. Lot more to any position than sheer physical attributes, but are we missing the threat of some sheer gas? Mitchell and M Smith are probably around the fastest in their positions, but not sure that applies to the outside backs. Definitely not the midfield, and while Sleightholme, IFW, Freeman and Furbank are all quick, none seem to be total sprinters like peak Watson and May who at their peak you'd have backed against anyone. Isn't Earl supposed to be about the fastest over 20m?

 

[Scotty]

I think that build's pretty much spot on TBH. Bit of height for the high ball, weight should mean he's solid enough in contact and be able to bust tackles once he gets going. But not so heavy as to reduce his pace, or probably more importantly, agility. I'm all for our backs being powerful but for those out wide that should be a secondary trick.

Just one thought. Lot more to any position than sheer physical attributes, but are we missing the threat of some sheer gas? Mitchell and M Smith are probably around the fastest in their positions, but not sure that applies to the outside backs. Definitely not the midfield, and while Sleightholme, IFW, Freeman and Furbank are all quick, none seem to be total sprinters like peak Watson and May who at their peak you'd have backed against anyone. Isn't Earl supposed to be about the fastest over 20m?

I thought Sleightholme was very quick? Or quickest of them. Tbh though I sprinter is great but if there is next to no space being made by the centres

 

[BPM]

Looking forward to the 6N, meeting the target of 4 wins is unlikely. Ire away first up is the obvious banana skin although we do have 3 at home and Wal should be beatable anywhere.

Who would we like to see? I'd go:

1. Genge. A bit reluctantly, but who else?

2. LCD. It'll be George

3. Stuart. Improving.

4. Itoje

5. Martin

6. Chessum

7. Underhill

8. CCS

We can talk about footballers and balance in the pack all we want but it's clear that serious physicality still matters at this level. This lot should be able to provide some go forward while hitting very hard in defence. Hard to think of a much better set piece unit although George's darts are probably still marginally better than LCD's and Isiekwe's probably our top guy in the air although Chessum returning largely covers that off.

9. Mitchell

10. M Smith

11. Sleightholme

12. Lawrence. Reluctantly, but who else?

13. Freeman. Punt, but worth trying

14. IFW

15. Furbank, although far from convinced.

Not totally sure on bench but maybe something like: Baxter, Langdon, Davison (let AOF loose next year), Earl, T Curry, JvP, F Smith, Daly (useful utility cover).

Also assumes everyone's fit which is unlikely.

Not much to disagree with there.

Personally, I'd prefer go with Asher at 17, have Heyes at 18, and Dingwall or Beard at 23. Maybe even Lozowski?

I think 4 wins is beyond us. Our only chance in Dublin is catching Ireland on an off day like the Pumas almost did. We won't beat France but we NEED to beat Scotland and Italy at home and then I would fancy us to handle this Welsh team.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I thought Sleightholme was very quick? Or quickest of them. Tbh though I sprinter is great but if there is next to no space being made by the centres

Totally, but the threat of pure gas just puts an extra element of doubt in defenders' minds.

And let's not overlook that real pace is also important in a defensive context too.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think 4 wins is beyond us. Our only chance in Dublin is catching Ireland on an off day like the Pumas almost did. We won't beat France but we NEED to beat Scotland and Italy at home and then I would fancy us to handle this Welsh team.

If we can't beat this Welsh team then we should all pack up and go home.

The sporting gods would need to seriously align to see us beating either Ire or Fra. As you say an off day is our best hope.

Won't underestimate Ita, but I don't quite see them taking us down at home.

Calcutta Cup may be the biggie. We haven't won any of the last 3 at home, but all have been one score games. They've got some real threats and if we don't get our defence sorted sharpish, I could easily see us being sent homewards tae think again.

My best guess is 3 wins but wouldn't be surprised at 2. 4 would be unexpected progress and a GS would be an Emma Raducanu or Buster Douglas moment.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Joe Marler has retired from the entire game. Last game will be for Quins on the weekend.

Gutted

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Joe Marler has retired from the entire game. Last game will be for Quins on the weekend.

Gutted

Where have you seen this ?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Joe Marler has retired from the entire game. Last game will be for Quins on the weekend.

Gutted

We knew it was coming, but this all feels a bit sudden. Coming on top of his withdrawal from the England squad and the haka stuff I hope he's OK. Deserved to go out in a bit more of a blaze of glory.

Some of the other stuff masked how good a player he really was. Even Jones admitted he'd stuffed up by not picking him in the 19 final.

Great career, but could have been even better. Hope he enjoys his retirement and hopefully he won't be lost to the game.

Also worth saluting one of a dwindling number of one club men.

Rugby just got duller.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

We knew it was coming, but this all feels a bit sudden. Coming on top of his withdrawal from the England squad and the haka stuff I hope he's OK. Deserved to go out in a bit more of a blaze of glory.

Some of the other stuff masked how good a player he really was. Even Jones admitted he'd stuffed up by not picking him in the 19 final.

Great career, but could have been even better. Hope he enjoys his retirement and hopefully he won't be lost to the game.

Also worth saluting one of a dwindling number of one club men.

Rugby just got duller.

His performance for quins vs Bristol in the 20/21 semi final was phenomenal.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'd like the bench to have a plan B. Let's see if we can get monsters on the bench if that's the plan to slow the game down.

If it's to speed the game up that needs to be the option. At the moment it's a miss match of random players who don't add anything as a group.

You could speed the game up with
Langon, Baxter, Asher, coles, Earl, Randell, f smith, sleightholme (start roebuck).

Or slow the game down

LCD, Obano, davison, chessmum/ martin, CCSS, spencer, smith, roebuck

Not perfect but it needs more of a strategy.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd like the bench to have a plan B. Let's see if we can get monsters on the bench if that's the plan to slow the game down.

If it's to speed the game up that needs to be the option. At the moment it's a miss match of random players who don't add anything as a group.

You could speed the game up with
Langon, Baxter, Asher, coles, Earl, Randell, f smith, sleightholme (start roebuck).

Or slow the game down

LCD, Obano, davison, chessmum/ martin, CCSS, spencer, smith, roebuck

Not perfect but it needs more of a strategy.

Get that. But you're never sure how a game will go, and invariably it's not to plan, so I think it's more a case of the wider 23 having the ability to flex styles as the game situation demands.

But the bench definitely needs to have a much more positive effect on results.
Hesitate to use the word "impact" as that implies speeding up, which isn't always needed.

 

[IT157]

Really not sold on FS to IC. I suspect his weaknesses would get shown up quickly. In particular his slowness on the half turn.

He is poor defensively with any form of footwork. Something he would face much more at IC

For a split second when I saw FS I thought Fin Smith and I was like man we're going for another 10 at 12 option haha

 

[Lé Ddanno]

We knew it was coming, but this all feels a bit sudden. Coming on top of his withdrawal from the England squad and the haka stuff I hope he's OK. Deserved to go out in a bit more of a blaze of glory.

Some of the other stuff masked how good a player he really was. Even Jones admitted he'd stuffed up by not picking him in the 19 final.

Great career, but could have been even better. Hope he enjoys his retirement and hopefully he won't be lost to the game.

Also worth saluting one of a dwindling number of one club men.

Rugby just got duller.

Really well said.

 

[Booboobang]

Looking at the year as a whole, there is no shame in losing by a handful of points to teams that are objectively better (and certainly more consistent). The issue is that there was no sign of improvement and if anything, we looked like we're getting worse rather than getting better. Some of that is explained by the coaching upheaval, but it still isn't good enough.

That said, the results that bother me more are Australia and Scotland. Those are scalps we should be taking but we didn't.

On this, we also only won games by a handful of points, two against teams we should be easily winning in wales and italy. People talk about close losses, but the wins werent impressive either.