England 2022/23

[Scotty]

Arundell is such a wierd one, alot of natural ability but very inexperienced.

A full back for most of his experience deployed as a winger.

Taking defence and aerial skills out of the equation how different are wing and FB going forward? Id say pretty different with a winger getting on the end of a play where as a FB tracking the ball. More to it i know but they are different.

Id say he's much more suited to FB, but in core FB skills he doesnt match Steward.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Arundell is such a wierd one, alot of natural ability but very inexperienced.

A full back for most of his experience deployed as a winger.

Taking defence and aerial skills out of the equation how different are wing and FB going forward? Id say pretty different with a winger getting on the end of a play where as a FB tracking the ball. More to it i know but they are different.

Id say he's much more suited to FB, but in core FB skills he doesnt match Steward.

Arundale is quicker for sure Freddie better under the high ball but lacks that acceleration to join the attack. Not seen Harry under the high ball much. Does anyone else know if he is secure? Combo of both skill sets would be ideal.

But yeh I think this whole hybrid winger cum full back comes back to NZ playing one at 14 - Wilson, Jane, Jordan.

 

[Which Tyler]

But yeh I think this whole hybrid winger cum full back comes back to NZ playing one at 14 - Wilson, Jane, Jordan.

Balshaw, Robinson, Watson

I think FB is just an interesting position, with 3 different "types" really, There's the playmaker, like a Malins, Goode, Foden; there's the 3rd winger, like those above, and there's the defensive rock like a Brown or Steward.

As ever, the very best combine elements of all 3 (and tend to be called things like Matt Perry, Serge Blanco, Christian Cullen or JPR Williams)

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Could we go the WC with only FBs? This is slightly jokey but there is some truth in this.

If we take Steward, Malins, Arendell and Watson those are all FBs who cover wing. I know Watson and Malins have been playing wing a lot but they are both FBs at heart etc.

On the other points I agree that Malins and Steward don't offer enough with both of them on the pitch. I did Malins showed some good skills etc but didn't shine at anything and Freddie made mistakes and showed his attacking limitations. Interestingly Freddie's main skill of being super secure on the high ball seems a bit of a myth because every game I watch him he's dropped more than one. Maybe nerves.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Balshaw, Robinson, Watson

I think FB is just an interesting position, with 3 different "types" really, There's the playmaker, like a Malins, Goode, Foden; there's the 3rd winger, like those above, and there's the defensive rock like a Brown or Steward.

As ever, the very best combine elements of all 3 (and tend to be called things like Matt Perry, Serge Blanco, Christian Cullen or JPR Williams)

Cullen is my all time favourite full back. Such a shame he was pushed into outside centre during his only RWC. Incredible full back at his peak. Just such a smooth running style and just hit unbelievable angles to come into the line and score tries.

For England Steward is great under the high ball but he's neither particularly quick or hits those angles which can open up opposition defences, which I like in a full back.

It's one of the core positions of the team so important to get that right.

 

[Saintjay]

Being one eyed I'd still go with Tommy Freeman. Plays full back at Saints, better in attack than Steward, think better under the high ball than Henry A. So win, win really.

 

[BPM]

Cullen is my all time favourite full back. Such a shame he was pushed into outside centre during his only RWC. Incredible full back at his peak. Just such a smooth running style and just hit unbelievable angles to come into the line and score tries.

For England Steward is great under the high ball but he's neither particularly quick or hits those angles which can open up opposition defences, which I like in a full back.

It's one of the core positions of the team so important to get that right.

I actually think Steward is underrated on hitting 'those angles'. There were definitely a few occasions in the 6N where he'd hit the right line but never got the scoring pass. It goes back to @Old Hooker's earlier point on the lack of a functional attack rather than being all on Steward.

Being one eyed I'd still go with Tommy Freeman. Plays full back at Saints, better in attack than Steward, think better under the high ball than Henry A. So win, win really.

I agree, although I highly doubt Steward will be leapfrogged by Freeman any time soon.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I actually think Steward is underrated on hitting 'those angles'. There were definitely a few occasions in the 6N where he'd hit the right line but never got the scoring pass. It goes back to @Old Hooker's earlier point on the lack of a functional attack rather than being all on Steward.

Yeh, but that lack of top end pace he can't hide. By that I mean fast enough rather than having the out and out speed of an Arundale.

 

[BrokenWing]

Could we go the WC with only FBs? This is slightly jokey but there is some truth in this.

Well we'd have to go uncontested scrums but it might work.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yeh, but that lack of top end pace he can't hide. By that I mean fast enough rather than having the out and out speed of an Arundale.

Ashtons big strength was hitting great lines and just having a knack for knowing where to be. He made this work in multiple teams. For England though, who never seemed to play in the expectation he'd do this, it very rarely came through. The issue with players who play this more supporting role with England is England are so **** poor at looking for the cheeky offload or a player doing something off the cuff that this strength is completely nullified. Likewise with Goode at Saracens, that supporting role simply didn't work with England.

Not saying Steward is like Ashton but we are absolutely dire at recognising space, supporting breaks and running lines off shoulders. In fact we are so bad at it that when players do it, they practically never benefit from it.

Steward definitely doesn't have top end pace and need work in defence vs players running ball in hand but he is a pretty big and powerful runner if put into space, I'm sure I remember him bouncing off players more than once. He is still young and has time to develop his game sense but that power game is something you tend to either have or you don't.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Ashtons big strength was hitting great lines and just having a knack for knowing where to be. He made this work in multiple teams. For England though, who never seemed to play in the expectation he'd do this, it very rarely came through. The issue with players who play this more supporting role with England is England are so **** poor at looking for the cheeky offload or a player doing something off the cuff that this strength is completely nullified. Likewise with Goode at Saracens, that supporting role simply didn't work with England.

Not saying Steward is like Ashton but we are absolutely dire at recognising space, supporting breaks and running lines off shoulders. In fact we are so bad at it that when players do it, they practically never benefit from it.

Steward definitely doesn't have top end pace and need work in defence vs players running ball in hand but he is a pretty big and powerful runner if put into space, I'm sure I remember him bouncing off players more than once. He is still young and has time to develop his game sense but that power game is something you tend to either have or you don't.

Yes, I don't know why England can't produce a functioning attacking back line. I know the attack coaches have been blamed, but I can't recall in last 4 years where they have managed one. It's really put me off watching England or dread watching them.

On Steward, yes he's powerful and tall and can use his size to bull doze through. But there is no substitute for that pace at the top level, but also combined with that ability to spot the gap and time his run to receive the pass to hit that angle. I just haven't seen that game intelligence when I have watched him play for England.

 

[stus768]

Yes, I don't know why England can't produce a functioning attacking back line. I know the attack coaches have been blamed, but I can't recall in last 4 years where they have managed one. It's really put me off watching England or dread watching them.

On Steward, yes he's powerful and tall and can use his size to bull doze through. But there is no substitute for that pace at the top level, but also combined with that ability to spot the gap and time his run to receive the pass to hit that angle. I just haven't seen that game intelligence when I have watched him play for England.

Can't we just do what other countries do with big 15s and move him to 12.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Can't we just do what other countries do with big 15s and move him to 12.

Now there's an idea. Need a 12.

 

[Which Tyler]

Why is it that whenever we produce a big back3 player, there are calls to play them out of position at 12?
Banahan, Cokanasiga, Steward (and this is far from the first time it's been suggested)
Hell, even Ben Cohen had calls to move him to 12 - in an era with Greenwood, Tindall, Catt and Noon

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

"I think it would be really dumb. The thing that makes Steward special is his aerial game. That gets nullified if he's at 12.

There's no reason he can't fill a 12-like role in attack while still playing 15."

Said this 3 months ago and my opinion hasn't changed.

 

[Reiser99]

Can't we just do what other countries do with big 15s and move him to 12.

"I think it would be really dumb. The thing that makes Steward special is his aerial game. That gets nullified if he's at 12.

There's no reason he can't fill a 12-like role in attack while still playing 15."

Said this 3 months ago and my opinion hasn't changed.

The issue with attacking at 12 is that he's out of position potentially at a turnover. Yes players can swap roles to an extent, but you're game plan should be based around your 15 playing 15 in defence and then 12 in attack.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Steward would have to play 12 for Leicester to even be considered for England. Just like Jordie for Hurricanes and NZ.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

For England Steward is great under the high ball but he's neither particularly quick or hits those angles which can open up opposition defences, which I like in a full back.

You mean this kind of angle?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You mean this kind of angle?

Yep, few and far between in the six nations though.

 

[Reiser99]

Yep, few and far between in the six nations though.

Yeah, but you can't blame one player. The whole attack was disjointed and not working. If the attack doesn't create the space for you then you'll always struggle to look good, especially as a back 3 player.