England 2022/23

[Ragey Erasmus]

Mercer was looking good against Bath. Big carries, good line breaks, quick, dynamic. Definitely must be in England contention when he returns (unless he gets fully Gloucestered).

 

[Geordie]

I'd still have Launchbury if i could... I also could see Davidson coming in as Newcastle scrum is solid but he plays both sides and frees up a spot.

Davison covers both sides also...and has an incredible work rate...that SB likes.

Also rumours that Gloucester want him for next season...so that will help his cause.

 

[ncurd]

that's how they are in the states at least. Only can be enforced in extremely narrow situations. The guardian is reporting that he will also be overseeing the wallaroos. He's essentially the czar of Australia rugby now.

Tbf I've been told they're essentially a scare tactic and aren't actually enforceable

Pretty much you really have to be taking over market sensitive insider proprietary knowledge. Just about everyone I work with has worked at similar companies that offshoots of the same one all within the local area.

Usually its why you have long notice periods baked in especially if your high up (I'm shocked at North America notice lengths) and why you might if you get lucky get put on gardening leave. Note you can still theortically (and pay the tax) work for another company whilst on gardening leave but usually its a gentleman's agreement you will not and they could in theory still call you in to work.

 

[LIONSxv]

Times saying it's 50/50 whether Smith will be included. Not on fitness but because he's not believed to suit the style Borthwick wants.

Ford believed likely to be picked. If Smith isn't then possible that F Smith would be which would be a huge call. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

That is a massive concern for me. This team should be built around Smith. As Dan Carter put it, he is a generational talent

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be a lock?

He's played a few games there, tbf

Thought Lawes looked really off the pace at 7 for Saints on the weekend - though hard to judge too harshly as Saints were soundly beaten in most areas,

Dropping Smith would be a big red flag, especially as Ford is yet to play this season

As much as we all want Borthwick to shake things up from EJ's reign we've gotta remember Borthers is EJ's boy, he learn to coach under EJ and they were in contact a lot even after Borthwick left the England set up. Whilst I do think that there will be a number of changes he's just as likely to pick EJs faves

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As we've got a 6N squad I'm locking this until post 6N to prevent confusion/duplicate posts

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Fears LCD may miss RWC. At least Walker got some good minutes in the 6N.

And what will be Felix Jones role in the coaching set up?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And what will be Felix Jones role in the coaching set up?

Good question, I'd presumed he was attack or skills coach, as an ex-fullback, but turns out he's a defence coach - not sure how that gels with our current set up

 

[Geordie]

So SB has 4 games before the WC...does anyone see much trialing...or will he know who hes taking and maybe only the back row might cause a few headaches.

Wales v England Saturday 5 August, Principality Stadium
England v Wales Saturday 12 August, Twickenham
Ireland v England Saturday 19 August, Aviva Stadium
England v Fiji Saturday 26 August, Twickenham

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd get Ted Hill in for a trial at the very least.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So SB has 4 games before the WC...does anyone see much trialing...or will he know who hes taking and maybe only the back row might cause a few headaches.

Wales v England Saturday 5 August, Principality Stadium
England v Wales Saturday 12 August, Twickenham
Ireland v England Saturday 19 August, Aviva Stadium
England v Fiji Saturday 26 August, Twickenham

This stage should be about polishing not trialling. Building unit continuity is probably now more important than testing individuals.

Front row pretty much picks itself

Itoje inked in. Chessum's injury means there's a position there up for grabs.

T Curry and Lawes play if fit. Question marks there, Willis next cab off rank. Hopefully Mercer's available for these - 8 shirt is his to claim.

JVP failed his audition. Not time for any one else so back to Youngs.

Midfield. Who the hell knows. I just want Borthwick to have some conviction in a plan. Any plan. Probably Faz at 10, Lawrence at 13 leaving Kelly and Manu to fight over 12 if either's fit. Slade looks done for the moment.

Wing position up for grabs. Watson and Steward inked in.

Plenty of bench and wider squad places to be decided.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really tough to predict what the warm ups will be like. The side is misfiring massively - because of coaching or combinations?

As above, in theory it should be be about polishing and trying out our RWC combos but are we settled enough for that?

I'd looking at trying some other players tbh - Mercer at a minimum, and I'd also want to look at a winger and a fullback (not because I'd drop Steward, but because we don't know who is second choice - presumably on paper it's Malins, if so give him a game there). Also give at least one start to Mitchell (if he's still third choice 9 - if we drop Youngs and bring someone else in, which I don't think we will, then give them a start).

Second (and third?) choice hooker needs game time, third choice props need gametime

 

[Geordie]

Yeah agree with both posts...its a tricky one for SB.

Ill go down the middle...i think he'll stick with 80ish% of the squad BUT one or two positions are very much up for grabs (and the back ups spots) and i think he'll experiment.

He will also be very aware that we are definitely a little short in old school power in the pack..ie winning the collisions in both attack and defence, as France so brutally exposed....though we did look better against Ireland.
He "may" want to look at addressing that.

12 is clearly up for grabs...if Kelly is fit...id put my mortgage on it that he'll start some games. Im very impressed with young Seb Atkinson at Gloucester. Might be slightly too soon for the WC...but he must come into contention post wc if he keeps producing and hes only 21 or so.

Lock...addressing the power issue...surely Ribbans is the man in contention. Maybe even George Martin as a dark horse bolter...his switch to lock has been very impressive! And again he brings that uncompromising physicality required.

Broken Record time...Id check out Ted Hill. In a world cup he might not bring an alround skill set but he brings sheer physicality in attack and defence. And he can cover 6/8 and lock in emergency. Very helpful squad player.

And we need a replacement for Mako...

Hooker is a dire situation...

Then 10....Farrell plus one of M.Smith or Ford. Id actually be amazed if its not Farrell and Ford (if hes fit and fully conditioned)!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How I think Borthwick probably sees his RWC squad right now; bolted on players in bold, players competing to get in in italics.
LP: Genge, M. Vunipola, Rodd, Obano
HK: Cowan-Dickie (if fit), George, McGuigan, Walker, Dunn
TP: Sinckler, Cole, Stuart, Heyes
LK: Itoje, Chessum (if fit), Ribbans, Isiekwe, Hill, Martin, Launchbury
FL: Lawes, T. Curry, Ludlam, J. Willis, B. Curry, Earl, Pearson
N8: Dombrandt, Mercer, B. Vunipola, T. Willis
SH: van Poortvliet, Mitchell, Youngs, Randall, Quirke
FH: Farrell, Smith, Ford
IC: Lawrence, Tuilagi, Kelly
OC: Slade, Marchant
WG: Watson, Malins, Arundell, Hassell-Collins, Murley
FB: Steward
UB: Daly

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Part of the problem is that these warm up games aren't played at quite the same intensity as full on tournament matches. So what might look OK there won't necessarily work when the temperature's turned up. But there are definitely some players that do need game time.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Looking at those players I can't see us getting anywhere in the World Cup. When did we stop having some decent forwards. Apart from the back row where we have talent but lacking experience (mostly due to injury), our front 5 look very pedestrian.

 

[McTallshort]

Watching Will Chudley at Coventry tonight, I wonder why he isn't playing in the premiership

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

George Martin for England in the RWC