England 2022/23

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Not true.

Maybe not world class, but to say we haven't had a good one just isn't true. Brad Barritt, prime Ford-Faz, Catt, Flood have all been "good" or "decent".

Maybe not world class

 

[Booboobang]

How old is he now? He seems to have done v well from what ive seen of him out there(although is limited) he would do well yo come back now as he could surely challenge for the 'TH' lock role. I remember him looking good at a young age at Sarries.

He is an ancient 23, not 24 till june so plenty of time for him to continue his development and come back better for it, ala mercer. A lot of good young locks, just need at least 2 to develop properly.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I know he's not in favour at the moment but I'd say that 2019 Tuilagi was world class at 12 when partnered with Slade.

Te'o also looked fantastic on the Lions tour but he never showed that form for England, nor can we claim to have developed him. I do think he could have been world class if he'd stayed injury free though.

We've had some very good 12s; they can just never stay fit.

For me a 12 needs to be a good passer of the ball and Tuilagi never had great hands.

 

[Booboobang]

On the 12 issue, isn't there a rugby league offload merchant that we could pluck at the beginning of the next cycle? Kind of like sam burgess but without having to do the conversion in 6 months.

I jest, but Kelly's injury history is a worry for 12 and he is pretty much the only really promising one I can see being close to wolrd XV level in the prem currently.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Going to expand on that one?

Which of those were "bad" 12s?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Going to expand on that one?

Which of those were "bad" 12s?

I wouldn't refer to any of them as great 12s or really good 12s. Barritt wasn't great and very limited. Great defence but offered the minimal going forward. Catt and Flood both ok there but not first choice by any means at 12.

Manu previously did seem WC at 12 for a period, he played really well and did manage some great passes as well as some great lines.

T'eo played average for England, really nothing to shout about.

Flutey was great but not English.

Then there have been others but none I can think of that were great. Would an England 12 have ever made it into one of the top 5 12s in world rugby, struggling to think about many (post Greenwood) apart from Manu. Although I may be forgetting some.

Others who never made it there, sums up our problems of trying to find a top draw 12:

Ollie Barkley, Anthony Allen, Shane Geherty, Banahan, Hape, JTH, 12trees, Kyle Eastmond, Burgess (lol), Piers Francis, Vesty, Hipkiss and Noon played 12 as well I'm sure for England.

(think Burrell and Tompkins played 13 for England)

Wow some of those took some thinking.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I wouldn't refer to any of them as great 12s or really good 12s. Barritt wasn't great and very limited. Great defence but offered the minimal going forward. Catt and Flood both ok there but not first choice by any means at 12.

Manu previously did seem WC at 12 for a period, he played really well and did manage some great passes as well as some great lines.

T'eo played average for England, really nothing to shout about.

Flutey was great but not English.

Then there have been others but none I can think of that were great. Would an England 12 have ever made it into one of the top 5 12s in world rugby, struggling to think about many (post Greenwood) apart from Manu. Although I may be forgetting some.

Others who never made it there, sums up our problems of trying to find a top draw 12:

Ollie Barkley, Anthony Allen, Shane Geherty, Banahan, Hape, JTH, 12trees, Kyle Eastmond, Burgess (lol), Piers Francis, Vesty, Hipkiss and Noon played 12 as well I'm sure for England.

(think Burrell and Tompkins played 13 for England)

Wow some of those took some thinking.

Get Bath to convert Coka!!!

Seriously…...he's 25 now and I don't think there's space for him on the wing if the real speedsters are going well and his ariel game is way short of what it should be for a guy of his height. But his size and power will always have defenders keeping an eye on him, he's strong enough to make ground in traffic and if there's a gap he'd take it. Decent offloading game too. Obvs need to learn the position and defensive patterns etc.

More likely than Earl or Simmonds anyway.

#project27.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Allen not getting more caps was crazy

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It won't happen but Dave Ewers is legitimately in the form of his life at the moment and IMO is playing better rugby than any other English 6.

He's 32 now so it wouldn't exactly be building towards the future but with the RWC next year and Borthwick's affinity for big blindsides, I'd love to see him included. Mental that he's never gotten a cap.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Still reckon this is how Ewels has so many caps...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Still reckon this is how Ewels has so many caps...

How?

 

[Which Tyler]

How?

Typo

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Going to expand on that one?

Which of those were "bad" 12s?

Brad Barritt was solid in defence but did nothing in attack. Mike Catt played well at centre for England but he was the same generation as Greenwood. Toby Flood was a fly half not a centre.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Brad Barritt was solid in defence but did nothing in attack. Mike Catt played well at centre for England but he was the same generation as Greenwood. Toby Flood was a fly half not a centre.

Flood played 12 a chunk for England, Catt played after Greenwood and Barritt wasn't bad, that's my point

 

[Booboobang]

Get Bath to convert Coka!!!

Seriously…...he's 25 now and I don't think there's space for him on the wing if the real speedsters are going well and his ariel game is way short of what it should be for a guy of his height. But his size and power will always have defenders keeping an eye on him, he's strong enough to make ground in traffic and if there's a gap he'd take it. Decent offloading game too. Obvs need to learn the position and defensive patterns etc.

More likely than Earl or Simmonds anyway.

#project27.

I have thought about this for ages! If you want a big trucking 12 who can offload, he is literally the physical prototype who doesn't get involved enough when on the wing. Passing and kicking would be the biggest learning curve.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Passing and kicking would be the biggest learning curve.

He'd be a great prop if he learned to scrum

 

[Reiser99]

Isn't one of his biggest issues tackling anyway? Don't see how that would suit being a centre.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He'd be a great prop if he learned to scrum

So would Mako.

 

[Geordie]

Allen not getting more caps was crazy

Agree....he should have been England's 12 for a long time

 

[Geordie]

I wouldn't refer to any of them as great 12s or really good 12s. Barritt wasn't great and very limited. Great defence but offered the minimal going forward. Catt and Flood both ok there but not first choice by any means at 12.

Manu previously did seem WC at 12 for a period, he played really well and did manage some great passes as well as some great lines.

T'eo played average for England, really nothing to shout about.

Flutey was great but not English.

Then there have been others but none I can think of that were great. Would an England 12 have ever made it into one of the top 5 12s in world rugby, struggling to think about many (post Greenwood) apart from Manu. Although I may be forgetting some.

Others who never made it there, sums up our problems of trying to find a top draw 12:

Ollie Barkley, Anthony Allen, Shane Geherty, Banahan, Hape, JTH, 12trees, Kyle Eastmond, Burgess (lol), Piers Francis, Vesty, Hipkiss and Noon played 12 as well I'm sure for England.

(think Burrell and Tompkins played 13 for England)

Wow some of those took some thinking.

Kyle Eastmond should have been a 9.