England 2022/23

[Scotty]

That back line

Its crazy though because Steward, Murley, Freeman, JVP, Smith are all class and on good form and some not getting a look in even in the squad and the main issue is Faz at 12 who offers little and the insistance that porter is good enough to be ahead of Marchant, Lawrence, Slade who he put at FB.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I can't remember who was coaching at the time but for a long period I always thought the Saxons would smash the main squad. Maybe when Johnson was coaching, can't remember.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope whoever they bring in after the RWC doesn't have strong ties to the incumbent players cause we really need a clear out and start again,
Obv not saying none of the current lot should be there, but there's definitely a number of players who are there cause they've always been there/thereabouts and not because their performances lately warrant it

 

[LIONSxv]

The thing about Willis though is i dont see him as a total out and out fetcher. Hes also a big heavy duty carrier, try scorer, decent lineout option (at prem level so far). He actually looks like a 6 to me...6'3 big strong...just a class alround flanker.

Spot on been saying this for ages. The bloke is 17 odd stone, big and strong. Good carrier and big tackler.
I love Lawes but Willis has him in every dept barring the lineout

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Spot on been saying this for ages. The bloke is 17 odd stone, big and strong. Good carrier and big tackler.
I love Lawes but Willis has him in every dept barring the lineout

And 90 odd caps worth of experience. That matters.

I'm not saying we should necessarily have moved on from the old guard. Where I'm angry is that the newer blood haven't been given proper opportunities to push their case. If Youngs and Farrell etc had been pushed but responded and showed they were still top dogs then fine but it largely feels like we're back to sinecure central for certain players.

The Manu obsession particularly angers me. His best days are a decade back with the odd little peak since. No-one can do what he did back then and most importantly that includes Manu himself.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. T.Hill
7. Earl
8. T.Willis
9. Uren
10. F.Smith
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

Tom Willis signed to Bordeaux hasn't personally don't think Saxons is worth exceptional circumstances nor would a top 14 want him released for it
Forgot Finn Smith

 

[Scotty]

Tom Willis signed to Bordeaux hasn't personally don't think Saxons is worth exceptional circumstances nor would a top 14 want him released for it
Forgot Finn Smith

It depends i guess if he signs a contract for next season in the prem or not i guess but i get the point

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What does Farrell offer at 12 over any other 12 in the prem? Really curious, as he looks terrible compared to even the most average premiership 12.

He's a 10 playing out of position. Simple as. Whether he's our best 10 or not is a different debate.

Jones was going on about him being an icon the other week and Gatland was saying similar. They get to see him on the training field which we don't but I think in matches it's his attitude they like. A bit spiky and knock him down and he'll come back twice as hard. Mike Brown was similar. You need those characters and at the moment maybe only Genge shows that kind of genuine hard edge. Shouldn't override the need to be otherwise worth your place in the team, but those kind of mood setters are important.

Whatever we think though his 100th cap is coming up and that's a hell of an achievement.

 

[ncurd]

Whatever we think though his 100th cap is coming up and that's a hell of an achievement.

Ben Youngs is the most capped England player of all time, its made that achievement meaningless.

 

[Which Tyler]

Ben Youngs is the most capped England player of all time, its made that achievement meaningless.

Sarah Hunter would like a word

 

[ncurd]

Sarah Hunter would like a word

Youngs will get there if EJ has his way.

 

[BPM]

1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. T.Hill
7. Earl
8. T.Willis
9. Uren
10. F.Smith
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

1. Marler
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Robinson
5. Clarke
6. T. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. F. Smith
11. Murley
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

Not much in it, but I'd much rather Robinson than Wells, I marginally prefer Dombrandt over Tom Wills and Murley over OHC (probably my Quins bias).

 

[BPM]

I hope whoever they bring in after the RWC doesn't have strong ties to the incumbent players cause we really need a clear out and start again,
Obv not saying none of the current lot should be there, but there's definitely a number of players who are there cause they've always been there/thereabouts and not because their performances lately warrant it

In fact, I might even create a thread … 'Life after Eddie …'

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's a 10 playing out of position. Simple as. Whether he's our best 10 or not is a different debate.

Jones was going on about him being an icon the other week and Gatland was saying similar. They get to see him on the training field which we don't but I think in matches it's his attitude they like. A bit spiky and knock him down and he'll come back twice as hard. Mike Brown was similar. You need those characters and at the moment maybe only Genge shows that kind of genuine hard edge. Shouldn't override the need to be otherwise worth your place in the team, but those kind of mood setters are important.

Whatever we think though his 100th cap is coming up and that's a hell of an achievement.

I'm not so sure, Farrell has more than once been directly responsible for some of England's collapses with his own poor decision making and forcing the game / getting flustered. Rather than being a steadying influence, he seems too prone to getting in a flap and losing his cool rather than continuing to make good decisions when things go wrong. Sure Jones may see something we don't but ultimately actions must match the chat.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm not so sure, Farrell has more than once been directly responsible for some of England's collapses with his own poor decision making and forcing the game / getting flustered. Rather than being a steadying influence, he seems too prone to getting in a flap and losing his cool rather than continuing to make good decisions when things go wrong. Sure Jones may see something we don't but ultimately actions must match the chat.

Agreed. My point was more that he'll usually run towards the fire whereas too many others head in the opposite direction when the going gets tough. Generally that's a very good thing, but not if emotions can't be controlled. Why he's a great sergeant major but a poor captain.

As Cockers said of Genge I'd rather have to pull someone away from the fight than drag them to it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Meanwhile, after winning player of the year in France, Mercers gets man of the match in the Baabaas vs NZ XV


We would be lunatics to ignore him if he becomes available for England again. Marchant also apparently performed well and both got a try.

 

[BPM]

In fact, I might even create a thread … 'Life after Eddie …'

Life after Eddie …

I think this deserves its own thread. Post RWC, who do you want to see in the Head Coach role and what do you think the squad should look like? To replace Eddie, I’d be most interested in either Edwards, ROG or Robertson, probably in that order. I don’t outright hate the idea of Borthwick but...

www.therugbyforum.com

 

[Scotty]

1. Marler
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Robinson
5. Clarke
6. T. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. F. Smith
11. Murley
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

Not much in it, but I'd much rather Robinson than Wells, I marginally prefer Dombrandt over Tom Wills and Murley over OHC (probably my Quins bias).

I thought we were doing not picked in EJs AI squad thats why i didnt put Murley and Mitchell but i do agree, also forgot Dombrandt

 

[LIONSxv]

And 90 odd caps worth of experience. That matters.

Farrel has 90 odd caps more than Lawrence. Who would you pick on the basis of form and natural ability as a centre?
Experience is important, ability and most importantly team balance even more so in my opinion

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Farrel has 90 odd caps more than Lawrence. Who would you pick on the basis of form and natural ability as a centre?
Experience is important, ability and most importantly team balance even more so in my opinion

Lawrence, mainly on the grounds that he's actually a centre and one with a running game at that.

But there's also a lot of truth in the test match animal stuff and we haven't yet seen enough of Lawrence to know whether he has the temperament for the international game. And that may be his own fault - at least in Jones eyes.

Unlike the bizarre Marchant silence Jones openly said that Lawrence wasn't hungry or disciplined enough i.e attitude. Whatever you think of Farrell there's seldom been any doubt that he's given it his all - whether that's always been good enough or what the team actually needed is another matter.

Team balance - 100% agreed and that doesn't mean the 'best' 15 players.