England 2022/23

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think Mercer was known for being a pretty excellent lineout operator wasn't he?

 

[Crash Hamster]

I would just clarify Not just 5m options but also gives throw to the back option to give front foot ball if a lineout was in the centre of the field. Otherwise limiting to front or middle and easy to read and steal. Hence why at least a third line out option is preferable, if not 4 or 5 with at least one at the back.

I'm not saying that a lineout third option is a wrong choice. What I am saying is that making it the most important criterion for selecting a six is nonsense.

The best I could find was this article https://rugbydome.com/number-of-lineouts-in-a-rugby-match/ which suggests an average of 25 lineouts per international match. I'll assume that half of them go to each side, so you have 12.5 lineouts when you're throwing in.

If you have three options that's just over 4 throws to each jumper (if you discount the 1-ball front peel into touch move). For defending an opposition lineout, you're not getting three jumpers airborne each with a two man lift, meaning that at least one jumper has only a one-man lift and thus will be less effective. Of course, you could choose which two of the three you're lifting properly, which has some advantage.

It's madness to select someone who is great at just four [set]pieces of action per game, when someone else, who will be better involved around the pitch for the rest of the game and might win you 1 or more turnovers/breakdown penalties.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We have plenty of backrowers who are good in the lineout,
This myth that you have to be a lock to be a capable jumper needs to die

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Good options, but not great. Line up a Curry v a PSTD or Mostert and there's only one winner. Just a simple numbers game in the line out. Thankfully we don't have that problem v Japan, but v Boks in 2 weeks?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Still think it's a non-issue that's been overblown to an insane amount

Two specialists in the second row and 2-3 options in the backrow is more than fine

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I do think that it's good to have a back rower who can act as a third, very good lineout option. Having 2-3 back rowers who are all okay at it doesn't really work as if you have multiple, shorter jumping options bunched close together then a 6'8 lock like Etzebeth can cover them all by himself.

However, that 3rd third very good option definitely doesn't have to be a lock. O'Mahony and Tipuric are both excellent lineout jumpers and are 6'3 and 6'2 respectively but have incredible speed off the deck. At 6'3, Willis could definitely develop into filling that role. If not, then we do have genuine back rowers in and around the squad who are already very impressive jumpers like Pearson, Hill, Martin and (soon) Mercer.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Train strikes announced on the 26th for the England vs south's for a game. I'm booked on the train to go down so now probably can't get there or back.

Ffs

 

[Scotty]

Coles playing 6 for his club then 4 for England Itoje playing 4 for his club and 6 for England last week was just another weird entry into EJs plplaybook

All i can think is EJ ie thinking for the WC if a 6 goes down and itoje gets shifted there he needs experience and Coles is a six but also could be a good lock, seems built like 1. You know EJ he likes players to play multiple position.

Not saying i agree with it because i dont but if we started coles at 6 and itoje at lock would we be complaining as much? Obv we want Willis in there.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

All i can think is EJ ie thinking for the WC if a 6 goes down and itoje gets shifted there he needs experience and Coles is a six but also could be a good lock, seems built like 1. You know EJ he likes players to play multiple position.

Not saying i agree with it because i dont but if we started coles at 6 and itoje at lock would we be complaining as much? Obv we want Willis in there.

Itoje doesn't need experience in that situation. It's just completely BS.

 

[TW27BA]

With the perplexing changes EJ is making, wait for Curry back at 8 and Willis in at 7 for the AB's next weekend.
There is another example of EJ picking a player in the wrong position.
I really have no expectations of England until EJ is replaced.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Couple of serious questions. I'm not asking to be sarcastic, genuine questions.

What does Farrell offer at 12 over any other 12 in the prem? Really curious, as he looks terrible compared to even the most average premiership 12.

What does Mako have to do to be dropped entirely? He doesn't scrum, he does little in the loose. He's just not a a great player let alone an international, why?

What does Itoje offer these days? I know he does some good things, but what does he offer over and above a Willis or a Ludlow or Hill for example. Watching him in detail he doesn't seem to play rugby that well for England.

What does Youngs offer at all at any level, I've seen turtles faster than him, just dire. Why are we still using him?

What does Binny offer? He doesn't bosh the contact any more, he doesn't do anything special, just a passenger at international level. What does he offer over Ackerman or any other English 8?

Just think we have far too many poor players in our squad at the moment. Some real head scratching moments with this terrible squad.

 

[Geordie]

Well Japan done, please add Lawrence and Ted Hill and thats better

 

[ncurd]

I know I'm broken record in Farrell but I've been pretty consistent for over 7 years. But what reputation is he living on? He's never been an outstanding fly half and there was time the Ford Farrell axis worked but it was never due to his brilliance.

I've never got it and never will.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wales result shows how pathetic we were last week,
Wales severely out of form and barely had to try

Losing to Argentina at home should be an unacceptable result for a NH coach - don't care if their TRC form is good, they travel north poorly and this year is no exception

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well Japan done, please add Lawrence and Ted Hill and thats better

Lawrence has really caught the eye at Bath.

Maybe he's upped his game, simply grateful to be employed, maybe he's responded to Jones dropping him. Or maybe it's because I was generally pretty indifferent about watching Wuss matches in the past and never saw enough of him. Either way a nice combination of power, aggression, decent footwork and no little skill. Nuts that he's not involved.

And if we're going to play a big 6 Hill has to be in the conversation. He's a 6, not a hybrid lock although there's previously been talk of playing him there which I don't want to see and at 8 which could be very interesting.

Also good that both Watson and May are on the way back. Their pace and experience will make a massive difference. Big shame we haven't had the chance to see Arundell this Autumn.

 

[Scotty]

Lawrence has really caught the eye at Bath.

Maybe he's upped his game, simply grateful to be employed, maybe he's responded to Jones dropping him. Or maybe it's because I was generally pretty indifferent about watching Wuss matches in the past and never saw enough of him. Either way a nice combination of power, aggression, decent footwork and no little skill. Nuts that he's not involved.

And if we're going to play a big 6 Hill has to be in the conversation. He's a 6, not a hybrid lock although there's previously been talk of playing him there which I don't want to see and at 8 which could be very interesting.

Also good that both Watson and May are on the way back. Their pace and experience will make a massive difference. Big shame we haven't had the chance to see Arundell this Autumn.

Honestly all your saying is for post WC, i cant see either Lawrence or THill breaking through pre WC same as Murley and Tizard, EJ will be to set in his squad, honestly can see Watson and May being the wingers. And then a almost full rebuild when the new coach comes in because as usual EJ left it v late.

 

[Geordie]

Lawrence has really caught the eye at Bath.

Maybe he's upped his game, simply grateful to be employed, maybe he's responded to Jones dropping him. Or maybe it's because I was generally pretty indifferent about watching Wuss matches in the past and never saw enough of him. Either way a nice combination of power, aggression, decent footwork and no little skill. Nuts that he's not involved.

And if we're going to play a big 6 Hill has to be in the conversation. He's a 6, not a hybrid lock although there's previously been talk of playing him there which I don't want to see and at 8 which could be very interesting.

Also good that both Watson and May are on the way back. Their pace and experience will make a massive difference. Big shame we haven't had the chance to see Arundell this Autumn.

I probably bore alot on here, but ive banged the drum for Ted for a long time. Hes 6'5, an uncompromising physical back rower, and is strong in the lineout and also has a good turn of pace for a big guy. Hes also a leader and Captain...

To play Itoje at 6 when you have him or jack Willis available sadly just makes me want Jones reign to end ASAP.

And as to Lawrence...when your struggling for dynamic all action centres, to ignore him (and Marchant) is criminal.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Give me a Saxons team of like
1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. Martin
7. Earl
8. Hill
9. Uren
10. Burns
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

V that England team

 

[Scotty]

Give me a Saxons team of like
1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. Martin
7. Earl
8. Hill
9. Uren
10. Burns
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

V that England team

1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. T.Hill
7. Earl
8. T.Willis
9. Uren
10. F.Smith
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

 

[Crash Hamster]

1. West
2. McGuigan
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Clarke
6. T.Hill
7. Earl
8. T.Willis
9. Uren
10. F.Smith
11. OHC
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

That back line