England 2022/23

[Ragey Erasmus]

Up there with Dunn's more caps than minutes played...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Jones is a joke. Why waste Radwans time.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Up there with Dunn's more caps than minutes played...

Jones is a joke. Why waste Radwans time.

Out of curiosity, what are your solutions? Announcing a 36 man squad and then reducing it to 25 is the agreement that the RFU has with the clubs; I'm sure that if EJ could keep the players for the whole week then he would.

Would you rather that Radwan not get called up at all? Because I'm sure that he's absolutely fine with doing that travelling if it means that he keeps his place ahead of another candidate. Or alternatively do you suggest that we start picking our match day squads based on who's going to have the longest drive home?

EJ does plenty wrong but the incessant criticism of his every move is just grating at this point.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Out of curiosity, what are your solutions? Announcing a 36 man squad and then reducing it to 25 is the agreement that the RFU has with the clubs; I'm sure that if EJ could keep the players for the whole week then he would.

Would you rather that Radwan not get called up at all? Because I'm sure that he's absolutely fine with doing that travelling if it means that he keeps his place ahead of another candidate. Or alternatively do you suggest that we start picking our match day squads based on who's going to have the longest drive home?

EJ does plenty wrong but the incessant criticism of his every move is just grating at this point.

Very easy solutions. Don't call up a player for 30 hours that you know has got zero chance of making the team. He already knew that Radwan was down the list as he wasn't in the original squad, we already have spare wingers in, there is no need to make him travel. He will have gained nothing that a phone call couldn't have sorted.

As for Dunn, why bother bringing him on for 1 minute or whatever it was for a couple of games. If you've ever subbed you know how unfair and actually detrimental it is as it often takes a little time to get in to games. We could have done with the fresh legs earlier as well and we never really got a look at Dunn so we learned nothing, gained nothing from having him at 16 and wasted a chance (again).

These are smaller things on their own but Jones does take every chance to cock up. Literally every chance he gets he takes.

 

[Which Tyler]

Very easy solutions. Don't call up a player for 30 hours that you know has got zero chance of making the team. He already knew that Radwan was down the list as he wasn't in the original squad, we already have spare wingers in, there is no need to make him travel. He will have gained nothing that a phone call couldn't have sorted.

So your solution is to cast Radwan aside, and not bring him in to camp at all -because he plays for a club that's too far away from London.

Do you replace him in the squad with a different player from a club that's closer to London? or just have a smaller squad, and no next-in-line winger who's ready to step in if there's an injury?
And just to clarify - you absolutely would not criticise Jones if he did those things you're suggesting?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So your solution is to cast Radwan aside, and not bring him in to camp at all -because he plays for a club that's too far away from London.

Do you replace him in the squad with a different player from a club that's closer to London? or just have a smaller squad, and no next-in-line winger who's ready to step in if there's an injury?
And just to clarify - you absolutely would not criticise Jones if he did those things you're suggesting?

I wouldn't call up anyone for 30 hours, doesn't matter where they live. It's a waste of anyones time when you look at the travelling and then the settling in to camp only to then pack and leave again. You don't need him to be there, he probably didn't even get to train.

Also Dunn was just a joke, you can't defend giving someone 3 total minutes, nothing gained at all.

 

[Which Tyler]

I wouldn't call up anyone for 30 hours, doesn't matter where they live. It's a waste of anyones time when you look at the travelling and then the settling in to camp only to then pack and leave again. You don't need him to be there, he probably didn't even get to train.

Right, so you'd have what? a 23 or 25 man squad, for the entire 5 weeks, because injuries don't happen, tactics aren't important, defensive patterns don't matter, and there are no coded calls in rugby... and nor is the ability to recognise someone by their face / build when you're playing with them. And no player has ever complained about haveing too little contact with, and interest from, the national coaches.
And you would absolultely support Eddie if he did that.

I don't believe you.

 

[BPM]

My morning routine is to have a quick scan on here while I'm drinking my first coffee of the day. Almost every day I think to myself 'I wonder if @Don't Skip Leg Day has brightened up? It never happens.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Right, so you'd have what? a 23 or 25 man squad, for the entire 5 weeks, because injuries don't happen, tactics aren't important, defensive patterns don't matter, and there are no coded calls in rugby... and nor is the ability to recognise someone by their face / build when you're playing with them. And no player has ever complained about haveing too little contact with, and interest from, the national coaches.
And you would absolultely support Eddie if he did that.

I don't believe you.

I didn't say that. Just don't call Radwan up knowing you'll have to se d him back to his club with less than a full day in camp. No problem with him being called up from the Monday - Wednesday session etc but a 30hour call up with him actually travelling is stupid.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Same. I don't massively care if our Head Coach is English or not, but I do think it helps to some degree. In any case, Edwards has the best CV IMO.

I'm fully on board with Edwards. As I would be with Farrell when Jnr is out of the picture.

I'm generally in favour of the best man for the job. But I never felt that Jones wanted, or was able, to fully get to grips with the English psyche particularly when things got a bit rough and / or the media kicked off. Even if the head coach isn't English, the wider coaching team should definitely have a credible, English flavour. That's the Irish model where Farrell's supported by the likes of O'Connell, Easterby and Fogarty.

And of course Ireland's attack coach is one Mike Catt who was widely derided when he held a similar role for England - probably a combination of a poor head coach and being given the job too soon. World Cup winner, 75 caps, now with coaching experience of 3 international set ups and 4 years at club level - compare that to Gleeson's CV and weep.

Also Edwards, Farrell and Catt have all taken themselves away from the English game and will be much better coaches for having experienced different rugby cultures and styles. OK, they've stayed in Europe but it's still a similar principle to Henry and Hansen coming to the NH and that didn't do them too much harm.

 

[Which Tyler]

I didn't say that. Just don't call Radwan up knowing you'll have to se d him back to his club with less than a full day in camp. No problem with him being called up from the Monday - Wednesday session etc but a 30hour call up with him actually travelling is stupid.

OK, I'm confused.
So you'd have him in your squad of 36, but feel that, because he lives a long way away, if he's in your 36 then he HAS to be in the 25, because there's no choice in the matter, because he lives a long way away?
Or that you'd break the EPS agreement, and have the 36 man squad together for 3 days of training, rather than the contracted 2 days?
Alternatively, you'd have him in the 36 man squad, but wouldn't invite him to squad meetings if he wasn't going to be in the 25 man squad?

Have I got that right?

Because all of those options are idiotic, and would see any coach (let alone Eddie) absolutely roasted alive.

Oh and "30 hour call up with him actually travelling" makes me think that you're under the impression that he did his travelling inside those 30 hours, rather than him being at the training ground at 11.30am Monday, and released after training on the Tuesday. He's been in the 36 man squad since October 2nd (and would have known the day before), he knew he was going to have to be there for the start of training on the Monday - chances are, he headed down Sunday evening.

 

[BPM]

It's a tricky one. I get the overall sentiment from @Don't Skip Leg Day. Radwan has previously said that he struggled with the to and fro between England and Newcastle without actually playing so I can understand why he'd be frustrated/feel like he's being messed around.

At least involving him gives him a slim chance of being retained. The alternative is not to involve him which gives him no chance at all.

For fringe players, there's no easy solution. Radwan is just unfortunate that it's made worse by the distances involved.

The Dunn situation is different and was ridiculous and bordering on cruel IMO.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's a tricky one. I get the overall sentiment from @Don't Skip Leg Day. Radwan has previously said that he struggled with the to and fro between England and Newcastle without actually playing so I can understand why he'd be frustrated/feel like he's being messed around.

At least involving him gives him a slim chance of being retained. The alternative is not to involve him which gives him no chance at all.

For fringe players, there's no easy solution. Radwan is just unfortunate that it's made worse by the distances involved.

The Dunn situation is different and was ridiculous and bordering on cruel IMO.

Yep. This is a bit of a damned if he does / doesn't.

36 feels too many though - with a squad that size there's always an element of making up the numbers especially if injuries bite. Maybe 30 would be better. Always a tough gig for someone like Radwan who knows that the coach doesn't really rate him and the travelling just makes it worse.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

My morning routine is to have a quick scan on here while I'm drinking my first coffee of the day. Almost every day I think to myself 'I wonder if @Don't Skip Leg Day has brightened up? It never happens.

I love to moan about Eddie.

OK, I'm confused.
So you'd have him in your squad of 36, but feel that, because he lives a long way away, if he's in your 36 then he HAS to be in the 25, because there's no choice in the matter, because he lives a long way away?
Or that you'd break the EPS agreement, and have the 36 man squad together for 3 days of training, rather than the contracted 2 days?
Alternatively, you'd have him in the 36 man squad, but wouldn't invite him to squad meetings if he wasn't going to be in the 25 man squad?

Have I got that right?

Because all of those options are idiotic, and would see any coach (let alone Eddie) absolutely roasted alive.

Oh and "30 hour call up with him actually travelling" makes me think that you're under the impression that he did his travelling inside those 30 hours, rather than him being at the training ground at 11.30am Monday, and released after training on the Tuesday. He's been in the 36 man squad since October 2nd (and would have known the day before), he knew he was going to have to be there for the start of training on the Monday - chances are, he headed down Sunday evening.

none of that is what I said and I've consistently said it doesn't matter where he lives that's not the point.

As stated previously, there is no point in calling him up knowing you will release him straight back to his club. There was never a point where Radwan would play this weekend. Even if we lost two wingers we'd see Slade or Manu on the wing as that's Eddie's mo. So why disrupt radwans week. Just wait and call him back up for the next 36 man squad so he gets a full week in training if you are interested in him.

Just because Eddie can call up 36 players it doesn't mean he has to every single time. In Eddie's mind Radwan must be our (May, Watson, Freeman, Nowell, coko and even steward) 7th choice winger right now (give or take). Wouldn't it be better for Radwan to just get a full week with Newcastle and train and play well for them rather than disrupt that chance.

 

[Which Tyler]

I love to moan about Eddie.

none of that is what I said and I've consistently said it doesn't matter where he lives that's not the point.

As stated previously, there is no point in calling him up knowing you will release him straight back to his club. There was never a point where Radwan would play this weekend. Even if we lost two wingers we'd see Slade or Manu on the wing as that's Eddie's mo. So why disrupt radwans week. Just wait and call him back up for the next 36 man squad so he gets a full week in training if you are interested in him.

Just because Eddie can call up 36 players it doesn't mean he has to every single time. In Eddie's mind Radwan must be our (May, Watson, Freeman, Nowell, coko and even steward) 7th choice winger right now (give or take). Wouldn't it be better for Radwan to just get a full week with Newcastle and train and play well for them rather than disrupt that chance.

TBH, you're leaving me to guess at what you would do - you just keep repeating what you wouldn't do.
Although you did say that yo'ud have a 3-day camp, breaking the EPS agreement; and you're now saying that you wouldn't call the 36 men into the squad now - which you absolutely would criticise Eddie for if he did that; and are now saying that yopu'd call him in to the next 36 man squad - which will start this coming Monday, so somehow it's bad this week but good next week (unless Eddie does that next week, in which case you're be criticising him)

So please clarify, what WOULD you do?

36 feels too many though - with a squad that size there's always an element of making up the numbers especially if injuries bite. Maybe 30 would be better. Always a tough gig for someone like Radwan who knows that the coach doesn't really rate him and the travelling just makes it worse.

Personally, I'd say that's fair - though I'd go with 31 (starting XV + bench, and a complete spare bench of 1st-choice backups).
But it would have to be the standard thing to do; I'd also suggest that if the England coaching crew are losing 4-5 players for their week-in, week=out squad, then they should probably gain an extra 4-5 for their wider squad.
Doing it as a one-off is ridiculous. Dropping 1-2 players because they're fringe players, and happen to live in Newcastle is beyond ridiculous

 

[Geordie]

Radwan benefits from being in the squad training with the best players in the country and being given training advice from the best coaches etc. Its worth him being there. He still plays for us...and him and Mateo Carreras are having their own try of the season competition.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It's also worth mentioning that if Radwan would really rather not be in the squad than do the travelling then he could turn it down; he's not legally obliged to turn up.

Yes, this would do serious damage to his reputation with EJ but he's going to be gone by this time next year. And if his chances of making the 23 are as slim as @Don't Skip Leg Day has said then he doesn't really have anything to lose by saying no, does he?

 

[Saintjay]

Surely Eddie Jones has one eye on his 31 man squad for the World Cup. I'd have thought players would bite an arm off to have a shout at playing for England. Moaning about travelling and not being picked would fit straight into Eddie's whole Marland Yarde "Bit tired mate" "F@#k then mate" incident.

 

[Which Tyler]

Surely Eddie Jones has one eye on his 31 man squad for the World Cup. I'd have thought players would bite an arm off to have a shout at playing for England. Moaning about travelling and not being picked would fit straight into Eddie's whole Marland Yarde "Bit tired mate" "F@#k then mate" incident.

For clarity, I'd be absolutely amazed if Radwan himself has uttered a single word of complaint (except maybe to his partner when he gets home knackered). The complaints are coming from other people - who would also absolutely complain if Radwan were excluded for being in Newcastle, or just excluded from these training sessions.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]