Dan Cole !!

[j-dawg]

If that's what you think, then that's fair. But Vickery, from what I can remember, had a decent enough workrate in a time when props were more likely to down a pint than a protein shake. It was his scrumming that really suffered towards the end as his body gave out. He was getting done over by Joe Marler in the premiership, who is not a top scrummer by any stretch.

 

[Peat]

There was nothing wrong with Vickery's loose play or scrummaging in his peak and really, suggesting otherwise is probably trolling.

Equally, Adam Jones loose play is not as bad as you are making out and there are stats to prove it.

What a bloody argument.

 

[Big Ewis]

If that's what you think, then that's fair. But Vickery, from what I can remember, had a decent enough workrate in a time when props were more likely to down a pint than a protein shake. It was his scrumming that really suffered towards the end as his body gave out. He was getting done over by Joe Marler in the premiership, who is not a top scrummer by any stretch.

...and Beast is a top if not the top LH scrummager of the past few years...hadn't seen Nicolas Màs struggle in the scrum too much these past 2-3 years (reference to FRA SAF Nov. 2013)...
Boy, England were pretty scary when they rocked Vickery on the right and Andrew Sheridan as the "weaker" tighthead, just watch a couple of those first scrums:

 

[Maverick1987]

...and Beast is a top if not the top LH scrummager of the past few years...hadn't seen Nicolas Màs struggle in the scrum too much these past 2-3 years (reference to FRA SAF Nov. 2013)...
Boy, England were pretty scary when they rocked Vickery on the right and Andrew Sheridan as the "weaker" tighthead, just watch a couple of those first scrums:

This reminds me of two things

1. What a damn mess the scrums used to be (not perfect now but better IMO)

2. What a fantastically humble and generally nice guy vickers is. He resembles everything good about rugby

 

[Big Ewis]

I like Vickery quite a bit. The English gentleman stereotype. Manly but with subtlety, not some brainless brute.

And yeah, obviously much better now. Excellent fine-tune from the guys up stairs for Rugby Union...the old rules were especially tough for those "longer" bodies, a guy like Sheridan who's a 195cm LOOSEhead...very hard to stably enter the scrum upon impact.

 

[j-dawg]

There was nothing wrong with Vickery's loose play or scrummaging in his peak and really, suggesting otherwise is probably trolling.

Equally, Adam Jones loose play is not as bad as you are making out and there are stats to prove it.

What a bloody argument.

I wouldn't call it an argument. I respect an opinion that speaks highly of Adam Jones but Im just not of that school of thought. The forum would be a very boring place if we all had the same opinion, and I will try to dig up some workrate stats simply to show I'm not talking out my arse here!

...and Beast is a top if not the top LH scrummager of the past few years...hadn't seen Nicolas Màs struggle in the scrum too much these past 2-3 years (reference to FRA SAF Nov. 2013)...
Boy, England were pretty scary when they rocked Vickery on the right and Andrew Sheridan as the "weaker" tighthead, just watch a couple of those first scrums:

Beast is definatley a good LH but I haven't seen much of him outside of internationals so I can't really comment without some further research. That Vickery, Sheridan combo was one of the best weapons England had.

 

[Big Ewis]

Beast is definatley a good LH but I haven't seen much of him outside of internationals so I can't really comment without some further research. That Vickery, Sheridan combo was one of the best weapons England had.

Same here, can only talk out of int'ls.
And what a result for England that year considering they weren't a great team at all going into it, 7th world ranking...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I wouldn't call it an argument. I respect an opinion that speaks highly of Adam Jones but Im just not of that school of thought. The forum would be a very boring place if we all had the same opinion, and I will try to dig up some workrate stats simply to show I'm not talking out my arse here!

Unless you have the detailed opta stats and the stats that the monitors provide the coaches from the boxes attached to players then you won't be able to.

Also stats are stats, can be interpreted in anyway you present them and tailored to suit your argument.

 

[j-dawg]

That's a fair point mate, I was just going off the stats from the lions game that brought a bit of a 'wtf' to my face. They were insanely low and I can't figure out how someone who rated Adam Jones would tailor 3 tackles and 0 carries to his favour, other than maybe 'he's there to scrum' which is in itself a fair point.

I'll wait until a few games of the 6 nations and see what turns up, numbers wise.

Same here, can only talk out of int'ls.
And what a result for England that year considering they weren't a great team at all going into it, 7th world ranking...

and yes, it was definatley surreal. That ranking itself flattered them! One of my favourite England games of all time was vs Australia in 07, because it was so unexpected and really shut up alot of people. Thanks to the front row boys for that one!

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://dementedmole.com/2013/10/30/ruck-marks/

Read that.

 

[j-dawg]

That's a very interesting read, must have played better than I thought in that first test. I'll have to keep my eye on Jones.


Also, that article confirms my thoughts that O'brien should have been starting all along. For me, he was the stand out back-rower all tour and if it weren't for Warburton's injury he'd barely have got any time.

 

[LooseHeadProp87]

I think my point about Dan Cole was proved yesterday schooled in the scrum by Domingo and even worse in the loose its time to give someone else a chance at tighhead as Dan Cole is not the man for the job anymore.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You're missing the point... Wilson is the only other player capable of playing to an international standard and he's injured.

 

[Tmartin995]

Why is it that we seem to have an abundance of looseheads, but a massive shortage of quality tightheads?

 

[LooseHeadProp87]

I know wilson is injured but i think anyone other than cole would of done a better job yesterday he was poor. Thomas should play against the scots.

Its a worry that there is no tighheads out there a problem that need solving asap in my opinion

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I know wilson is injured but i think anyone other than cole would of done a better job yesterday he was poor. Thomas should play against the scots.

Its a worry that there is no tighheads out there a problem that need solving asap in my opinion

With all due respect this is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.
Have you ever watched Thomas play?
Did you watch the game yesterday? The vast majority of penalties (all but one?) came from the loosehead side.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The fact that you are calling for Thomas to start shows how ignorant you are.

The guy is regularly demolished in the premiership.

 

[Big Ewis]

A big test for the England pack will be hosting Wales. Italy had a good day yesterday against the Welsh pack. Even Adam Jones showed some difficulty on some plays. Without Gethin Jenkins, Dan Cole has an opportunity to apply pressure on his side, while a Vunipola or Marler can confirm their contribution to the front row by countering big Adam Jones.
Looking forward to France Italy, Wales France and Italy England as well up front in the scrums.

 

[Maverick1987]

With all due respect this is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.
Have you ever watched Thomas play?
Did you watch the game yesterday? The vast majority of penalties (all but one?) came from the loosehead side.

I find it incredible that there's so many England fans that tug their little willys at Mako Vunipola playing but don't want Dan Cole to play . Like rats said Wilson is the only other person to come anywhere near Cole at international level . I really want to see cooper-wooley bought into the set up somewhere his scrummaging looks good and at 24 has plenty of time to improve .

Sorry quoted of the wrong post it was meant to be the one above ollyys .
Still drunk maybe ? Haha

 

[LooseHeadProp87]

Cole gave away more than 1 pen !! and in the loose he was terrible ( are you sure you watched the game ) cole is not a international standard prop no way not at current form. but hey thats just my opinion ! i think we need to find someone else other than wilson who can come in