[COVID-19] General Discussion

[General Melchett]

I get the whole public health thing and that it's about collective action and behaviour rather than individuals' own risk appetite. My understanding was that the main purpose of the lockdown was to:

1. Prevent the NHS from collapsing or being overwhelmed
2. To slow the spread and thus protect the elderly and vulnerable.

It looks like no.1 has been achieved (to the extent that the NHS hasn't collapsed) but for all the sacrifice that most of us have made I am amazed why hospitals, care homes, old folks homes weren't turned into fortresses with strict access controls (coupled with rigorous testing) in place. I am starting to think that much of the sacrifice that most of us have made as part of the lockdown (in terms of economic, social and mental well being etc.) has been wasted given how rife the virus has been within care homes and hospitals. I really hope a public enquiry is conducted thoroughly and fairly.

 

[Amiga500]

Ahh, but Boris isn't big on detail.

Neither are the rest of the fucknuckles around him it seems.

 

[ncurd]

I get the whole public health thing and that it's about collective action and behaviour rather than individuals' own risk appetite. My understanding was that the main purpose of the lockdown was to:

1. Prevent the NHS from collapsing or being overwhelmed
2. To slow the spread and thus protect the elderly and vulnerable.

It looks like no.1 has been achieved (to the extent that the NHS hasn't collapsed) but for all the sacrifice that most of us have made I am amazed why hospitals, care homes, old folks homes weren't turned into fortresses with strict access controls (coupled with rigorous testing) in place. I am starting to think that much of the sacrifice that most of us have made as part of the lockdown (in terms of economic, social and mental well being etc.) has been wasted given how rife the virus has been within care homes and hospitals. I really hope a public enquiry is conducted thoroughly and fairly.

Hospitals less so but the care homes thing is a real scandal there are very real questions that need to be asked and undrstood. The governments obfuscation and denial of their own figures show they know they ballsed that one up. The extent of culpability needs to be fully understood.

As noted most people of reasonable intelligence understood their own personal risk was low, lockdown was to slow community spread to protect the vulnerable and with care homes measure were not put in place to make sure they were protected.. Its either a huge oversight or a decision was made to protect hospitals (by discharging paitients with zero testing) over care homes.

 

[Which Tyler]

Study specific to Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/saf...hools-for-student-return-20200425-p54n6i.html

International studies:

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa424/5819060

Thank you - I'll have a look later

 

[Bada-Bing!]

McDonald's anyone?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

See the link to the NSW school study in my previous post.

They're not really giving consideration to the unintended consequences like the rise in the domestic violence or the joblessness rate because they can claim it's in the name of "keeping people safe".

I'm not saying they're evil but it's very convenient that the public were constantly being hit over the head with "listen to the experts" and then the moment it could negatively affect them, they choose not to follow the experts advice. They've now made it about politics and self preservation. The weaponisation of experts is not a good thing and further erodes public trust.

They're responding the the clear and present danger, if they think about every possible result then we get the kind of inaction other countries are complaining about

 

[User1245]

They're responding the the clear and present danger, if they think about every possible result then we get the kind of inaction other countries are complaining about

I can totally understand keeping other activities reduced to flatten the curve (remember this is the goal, not to try eliminate it because it's impossible now) but closing schools affects too many things negatively with virtually no upside and to do this against what the science says with no opposing evidence... It's hypocritical and sets a bad precedent.

 

[Gavin]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5452007/steve-coogan-millionaire-furlough-staff/amp/

The Sun are really having a go at Steve Coogan for furloughing his gardener and housekeeper.

To be expected when you consider the storm Coogan created with the Sun during the phone hacking scandal.

The storm on Twitter calling his a champagne socialist, but surely the point of socialism is that the government supports the workers.

Either way I heard that it could be rubbish because his staff are either self-employed or are sent by an agency.

The media cause a storm about Coogan to deflect from other issues regarding coronavirus.

 

[ncurd]

Well I suppose that is front page news instead of Boris charging NHS workers to use the NHS even more than are currently.

 

[General Melchett]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5452007/steve-coogan-millionaire-furlough-staff/amp/

The Sun are really having a go at Steve Coogan for furloughing his gardener and housekeeper.

To be expected when you consider the storm Coogan created with the Sun during the phone hacking scandal.

The storm on Twitter calling his a champagne socialist, but surely the point of socialism is that the government supports the workers.

Either way I heard that it could be rubbish because his staff are either self-employed or are sent by an agency.

The media cause a storm about Coogan to deflect from other issues regarding coronavirus.

I don't understand how Steve Coogan (the individual) can be an employer and run a payroll for household staff. He'd have to pay employers national insurance and there would be little point in that assuming these payroll costs are not tax deductible given they perform duties in his personal residence and not anything business related.

I would imagine his gardener and housekeeper are either self-employed or through an agency. All self-employed people were recently 'invited' by HMRC to apply for a grant and the agency would be responsible for applying to join the furlough scheme if they were on the agency's payroll. Wouldn't at all surprise me if this is fake news designed to distract.

 

[ncurd]

Also doesn't this assume that Coogan himself manages all this himself when in reality his household(s) are managed by someone he pays too make the problem go away.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

A lot of these celebrities will have accountants who deal with this on their behalf - managing the payroll of their staff. PAYE, NIC etc and paying all household bills.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

In relation to testing:

"...Per capita, but per capita in relation to what?"

 

[Reiser99]

Looking at the data presented at the daily briefing, while it shows it's dropped from the peak, it does seem to flattening rather than continuing to drop. If the easing of the lockdown brings the R up, we aren't too far away from getting back to the peak. Other countries have managed to drop it far quicker and lower in recent weeks.

 

[ncurd]

Looking at the data presented at the daily briefing, while it shows it's dropped from the peak, it does seem to flattening rather than continuing to drop. If the easing of the lockdown brings the R up, we aren't too far away from getting back to the peak. Other countries have managed to drop it far quicker and lower in recent weeks.

Honestly you look at picture of beeches and the fact I know some people are clearly breeching the don't visit houses.

Plus the amount "socially distance exercise honest gov" I've seen going on.

Im amazed it's staying level TBH

 

[Reiser99]

Honestly you look at picture of beeches and the fact I know some people are clearly breeching the don't visit houses.

Plus the amount "socially distance exercise honest gov" I've seen going on.

Im amazed it's staying level TBH

Well the R number is definitely 2-3 weeks behind, so I do expect it to go back up. Question is far it might have spread in these past 2 weeks.

 

[Reiser99]

Question: What's changed in the last 12 days that mean France is no longer exempt.

Priti Patel: Well we've been discussing and talking and I've been in close contact with my French counterpoints and looking at the exemptions and bla bla bla. Absolutely nothing about why the decision was made and why there was such a quick turn around. Brief attempt to imply they originally meant key transport workers, but that's not what they said 12 days ago.

 

[Reiser99]

Having just finished an interview if I answered questions like Priti Patel I would definitely not get the job. So much waffle and absolutely no detail what so ever.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In relation to testing:

"...Per capita, but per capita in relation to what?"

View attachment 8193

No it's fine, the president of the USA not even know what per capita means is no problem...

 

[General Melchett]

Scotland is effectively three weeks behind England in terms of easing restrictions despite starting the lockdown at the same time. A lot of people have suggested that Nicola Sturgeon has deliberately deviated from No.10 so that it doesn't look like she's following BoJo's lead and that she's using this as an 'independent Scotland audition'. I'm becoming more convinced that her phased plan to lift restrictions from next Thursday looks sensible.