[COVID-19] General Discussion

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Amiga500, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    Oh yeah I absolutely agree, tbh we won't know unless there is an inquiry but there is hopefully no way he comes out of this with a job
     
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  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    When the health secretary is backing him up I don't think he's getting sacked
     
  4. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    I don't know, CCR would essentially compel them to do so no?

    If that's the Government stance then they would have to resign if they didn't agree with the gov in public so it's probably not overly significant if you get what I mean?
     
  5. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    I mean, maybe?
    But there's enough prominent Tories backing his stance that they could easily just sweep it under the carpet.
    As much as the public care about it - if the people who matter don't, then what can we do?
    Hancock and Gove have made public statements saying DC is in the clear. If BoJo sacks him now then he's going against two top Tories statements.
     
  6. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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  7. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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  8. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    So, if I've got this right, IF we believe that the biggest liar in British politics is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then what he did was illegal, and significantly worse offences than committed by Calderwell or Ferguson - both of whom were forced to resign.
    But that's okay, because the law isn't the law if you're a SPAD, it's impossible for a wealthy family in London to arrange home deliveries, and he didn't have any symptoms, making it completely unnecessary in the first place (and despite reports from before the time that he already had symptoms, in which case both adults were unsafe to drive anywhere, let alone 250-odd miles)

    And that's if you believe everything the conservative spin machine feeds you without an ounce of analysis (AKA Laura Kuensberg)
     
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    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 8:40 PM
  9. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    T
    That's all well and good but you just have to back Britain and get brexit done
     
  10. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

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    In fairness I think the original article did claim that the child was left with a grandparent(s). I agree Blackford was right to be called out and should have at least kept himself up to date with the latest version of events which now seems to suggest the child was with Cummings and his wife the whole time (in a separate part of the building) and that Cummings' sister and niece were 'on standby' to provide child care if needed.

    Either way, Cummings and his wife have no defence for travelling 270 miles whilst symptomatic 'just in case' they needed to call on child care support from family. The message at the time was 'Stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives'. Their actions essentially failed to protect the NHS and put lives in danger. They should have stayed in isolation at their home in London and called the NHS 111 or 999 if things got that bad. If they needed urgent childcare then surely it would have made more sense for Cummings sister to come to London and collect the child or worst case I'm sure No.10 could have pulled a few strings.
     
  11. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    Spectator has published a pretty unsubtle Why Cummings Must Go article. The same Spectator that Cummings wife works for......

    Pretty unedifying hearing a string of cabinet ministers blindly defending Cummings. Bojo has obvs rallied the troops, but if he decides that Cummings has become too toxic he won’t hesitate to dump him leaving a lot of ministers with a serious amount of egg on their faces.
     
  12. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

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    So Boris could sack Cummings who could then be hired by Labour to mastermind a stunning election win in 2024.
     
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  13. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

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    Tbh I understand the logic of having someone available to look after a small child if the parents are very ill. I'm not sure how accurate the facts are, but they might make sense if all true. (I personally wouldn't believe Cummings). Even the SAGE representative today made the point that within the lockdown safeguarding has to be take into account.

    The key issue for me is that it's so hypocritical as none of this was ever made clear within the guidance and many parents who could have benefited from something similar struggled because they thought they were doing the right thing and helping the country. On top many parents couldn't do this even if they wanted to, so parents who have struggled with no option can just see wealth being treated differently.

    For me it's the moral and ethical grounds where this is an issue, rather than a technical one over breaching guidance or the law. Many people are outraged because they've wanted to (and some could have) do the same or something similar, but have instead followed the guidance and rules only to see those in power ignore it.

    The key here is not whether left leaning voters who don't vote Tory get outraged, but if right-wing Tory supporters do. My mum who has voted Tory (and has considered voting UKIP/Brexit Party) for as long as I can remember has said she'll never vote Tory again. If there is a clear wave of outrage, especially amongst older grandparents who haven't seen their grandchildren, then that really will put pressure on Johnson.
     
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  14. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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  15. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness First XV

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    The thing that always struck me was that if you were to have a sars like coronavirus all over the world, you'd put your money on wuhan being the first place to identify it, being the place they study it.

    Given it is particularly susceptible to the aged, there is more chance it would have gone undetected for some time, because cause of death would be less likely to be vigorously analysed, with cause of death likelt described as old age. This is just speculation on my part, mind.

    But yeah I would agree that it wouldn't likely have been circulating for a long time in a form close to that of current. I don't see why we should expect a link to wuhan though.

    I should disclaim here though, as my thoughts are not based on thorough review of the evidence or understanding of virology
     
  16. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    Yeah this is getting quite funny haha, what a twat
     
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  17. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

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    We could have had a lockdown that was less strict IF the entire population could be trusted to use common sense in situations such as this. Sadly this is not realistic and so a lockdown that was strict, unambiguous and easily understood was deemed necessary for all of us in order to compensate for the minority who don't/won't/can't comply and to remove the need to publish guidance for the thousands of different scenarios that would arise.

    Putting childcare aside, the real scandal here is that many people have not been allowed to say goodbye to lost loved ones and grieve properly because they thought they had to do the right thing and follow the Government's instructions. What must these people be thinking.
     
  18. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    The problem is the close source is widely considered to be Dominic Cummins himself. So instead of putting up to scrutiny she's essentially acting as his pres officer by just repeating what he told her to say and not putting it up to any scrutiny or him.
     
  19. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness First XV

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    Or wuhan discovered it soon after it arrived there, which was before the spread had really started to accelerate anywhere in the world (noting that viruses spread exponentially, meaning that they have a slow start and then increasingly rapid spread), and China got hit hardest up front as the first place that got it which had lots of environments, like street markets, where huge numbers of people are in super close contact with each other.
     
  20. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

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    Depends how much of this can be verified. Anyone with a shred of morality would say he goes, but this is politics. They could well try to deny it and hope they can ride it out (personally doubt they can). However, at the moment there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence, just witnesses who can't have their claims verified.
     
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  21. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    I think his only chance is parliament is in recess. Keeping it in the is the job of political journos many of the written press are in their side. However Cummins has very few political allies outside of Johnson so it's hard to see him lasting.

    Any other government and he'd have fallen on his sword by now.
     
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