[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Amiga500]

Asserting that others would have done a better job is laughably without foundation. Precisely whose CV suggests they would have handled this better?

All they had to do was go ask those that had come through SARS.

Did they go with a f**king herd immunity approach? Did they dither around with bullshit and less than half measures?


****, they could have asked me to make the decisions and I gathering information in my spare time would have made a better fist of it.


Just how inept does an English overlord have to be before the common people start to question their ineptitude? Your ancestors lined the ******* streets for Douglas Haig's funeral and it would appear little has changed since.

 

[Amiga500]

That has to come from someone who's never exercised outdoors....you go well beyond that to do any real distance. My point simply being you might as well just say don't go outdoors.

You could put up banked curves for your jog! Be like the Indy500

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Full lockdown here, can't go 2km from the gaff

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That has to come from someone who's never exercised outdoors....you go well beyond that to do any real distance. My point simply being you might as well just say don't go outdoors.

In France it's 500m unless you're walking a dog.
People in my parents' village are loaning their dogs out so people can walk further, ha.

They're in full blown lockdown mode in France - fines if you don't have a valid form explaining why you're out of the house. One of their friends went to the supermarket literally opposite their house - they'd written the previous day's date on their form so they were turned away/sent home, had to refill out/print the form, and walk back across the road to go into the shop.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

That has to come from someone who's never exercised outdoors....you go well beyond that to do any real distance. My point simply being you might as well just say don't go outdoors.

Having been initially led by economics they are now being led entirely be epidemiology. Being late to the party means a higher peak. The less people moving, the less cross group transmission. This is still happening in clusters. They don't want people from a cluster A moving into uninfected territory B or vice versa. Full lockdown of the U.K. by Monday.

They can't say "Unless you're sensible" as a significant number of the public have proven incapable of doing so.

Personally this is a real bugger. I've got great green space available with virtually no one in it 3km away... now we'll be forced to walk with others in town if the U.K goes the same way.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just how inept does an English overlord have to be before the common people start to question their ineptitude?

Look, we hate BoJo just as much as you - but what are you expecting?
We're in the middle of a world wide pandemic, you expecting us to take to the streets with our pitchforks and torches singing "Do you hear the people sing" from Les Mis?
We're making the most of a bad situation and the Government (after an initial **** show, which is very much not forgotten) is doing things right atm.
There is no alternative, it's not like if we get ****** off enough we flick a switch and everything is suddenly better.

 

[Leinster Fan]

That has to come from someone who's never exercised outdoors....you go well beyond that to do any real distance. My point simply being you might as well just say don't go outdoors.

Had to be done as too many people were driving their family out to the mountains for a walk. It'll be frustrating but the right decision.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They're in full blown lockdown mode in France - fines if you don't have a valid form explaining why you're out of the house. One of their friends went to the supermarket literally opposite their house - they'd written the previous day's date on their form so they were turned away/sent home, had to refill out/print the form, and walk back across the road to go into the shop.

Surprised it's only one form to be honest... The French love some paperwork

 

[ncurd]

So here's the thing and Amiga I know you don't agree so can the Johnson eats babies response to this.

Has the UK actually changed it plan? Escalation in measures was always the plan rather than straight up full lockdown from the start. And most of that is to give time for certain other things to be put in place. Loads of NHS staff have be reassigned, Nightingale hospital wasn't an idea that sprung out the ground this week. A government powers bills had to drafted distributed and get other parties so there was no ping pong with the Lord's. These are all things that can't happen instantly in this country.

Honestly you look back at the mistakes so far, 'herd immunity' as far as anyone can tell this is still the end goal because it certainly isn't eradication or a vaccine. So what people mean is no restrictions but when the numbers got a certain level they did start putting restrictions on there is some evidence this was delayed 24 hours (it was quite widely leaked). But there is no evidence currently that the government didn't hit that stage in relation to epidemic in the they wanted to.

Then there's lockdown stages again it's been a phased approach and nothing to suggest the government hadn't planned it this way. It's given businesses time to create continuity and work from home plans proactive companies like the one I work have had home working for 2 weeks but it meant on Monday we could **** the worksite down with minimal affect (apart from a prat who did other things other than set up his kit home working).

So that leaves three things that could potentially be actual mistakes, school closures it does feel like they were trying to get another couple of weeks but they did close them when it became clear the situation was untenable. And Mothering Sunday weekend nonsense of people outside and honestly I shrug my shoulders at that one even I who normally has massive disdain at the British public couldn't believe their general idiocy over that one. Theres also the mixed messaging about what placed of work should be open and essential travel. It's clear they meant everyone should go to work I disagree with it but was it a mistake? Thats possible above may pay grade.

Look I'm not saying the government have done everything right the three examples above were clearly possible mistakes (people still gathering on masse certainly was). I'm just saying there has been no radical change in plan it was always about escalation rather than sudden change.



@Yoshimitsu on full lock down on Monday it does seam to fit the pattern. But I think what will matter most to if they do something will be weekend numbers and if people still defy going outdoors in groups. My main worry on that front is people clearly not going to exercise but for a stroll (nobody I've seen walking have been walking at a pace for it to constitute exercise).

 

[General Melchett]

After the whole Javid resignation due to the Cummings led No.10 power grab thing I just hope the Government have learned that Cummings should step back from any decision making relating to the COVID19 response and leave it to the experts. That's how Governments function best rather than having a megalomaniac calling the shots.

Not a fan of BoJo either but think he and Sunak have done pretty well in front of the cameras over the past couple of weeks.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The 80% to companies (and now self employed) is better than any other country in the world that I've seen - I've not really looked into it but I believe they've tried to fast track universal credit payments as well (cutting the initial several week wait period or something?). Rishi Sunak has probably had the most meteoric rise of any MP in recent history with how well he's come across during all of this.

Yeah, so had to have a look at the Government's proposals on this as I work with a lot of self employed clients. So this applies to self employed people or members of a partnership who:

• Have submitted their tax return for 2018/19;
• Traded in the current tax year we're in 2019/20;
• Trading when you apply or would except for Covid -19;
• Intend to trade in 2020/21;
• Have lost trading/partnership trading profits due to Covid-19.

Your self-employed trading profits must also be less than £50k and more than half of this come from self-employment. This is determined by:


1. an average net profit from their self-employment from 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 of £50k and the self employments income must make up more than 50% of your average income for those years;

or

2. For 2018/19 your net profit was less than £50k and make up more than 50% of your income for the year.

So HMRC will only use tax returns submitted for 2016-2019. And if you're self-employed like @Tallshort And if you have not submitted your 2018/19 tax return yet, then it must be submitted by 23 April because HMRC will only Data on 2018/19 returns already submitted to identify those eligible.

The scheme will allow self-employed to claim a taxable grant worth 80% of their trading profits of £2,500 per month for the next 3 months. This may be extended if needed. Also this grant is taxable so needs to be included in the self-employed's 2020/21 tax return, when that return is due for filing on 31 January 2022.

If you have a company and pay yourself by way of dividends, rather than salary or those in the shadow economy then this scheme won't cover you.

So the scheme is not as generous as it first appears and especially harsh on those who have only just begun their self-employment and haven't earned much this tax year.

 

[Amiga500]

So here's the thing and Amiga I know you don't agree so can the Johnson eats babies response to this.

I believe that he is actually more prone to making babies with various women rather than eating them.

Has the UK actually changed it plan? Escalation in measures was always the plan rather than straight up full lockdown from the start.

Ah sorry, but you cannot call lurching from one panicked decision to the next panicked decision part of a plan.

Its obvious that at one end you've open free society and the other a complete lockdown with various points in between. Traversing from one to the other via inevitability does not consistent a plan.

Look, consider just the utter ******** he's made of his news conferences:
- Confused messages on shutting of bars/clubs/restaurants/theatres
- Confused messages on shutting of workplaces
- Confused messages on shutting of schools
- Mothers day ineptitude, "Oh, I'll be seeing my mum" on the Friday, followed by "Oh, no-one should visit their mum, please!" on the Saturday.

That's before we get into the timing of and decisions made.
- Why were all schools not told to immediately abandon any ski trips to Italy when it first emerged in Lombardy? Travel advice from FCO could have sorted the whole thing, insurance and all and not left principals trying to make the call.
- Why wasn't everyone returning from Italy or China not ordered into self-isolation that encompassed anyone within that house? [the duration of which would be minimum 2 weeks, and maximum depending on no symptoms shown]

Those two steps would be choked off much of the foothold points of the virus. They would have bought significantly more time than any measures introduced in March. They also would have meant the internal UK economy could have continued to function much more freely now - resulting in far less economic disruption overall. That last sentence was obvious to anyone who knew even the basic fundamentals of an infectious disease and of economics.

They were f**king stupid whichever way you look at it - they made the wrong decisions for looking after the economy and the wrong decisions for looking after the health of the populace.

 

[ncurd]

Yes we get it already you think it's a disaster you decided it was a disaster before anything happened. I'll happily place a bet if Labour were in charge (and they've backed the government mainly) you'd be singing a completely different tune.

 

[General Melchett]

I'll happily place a bet if Labour were in charge (and they've backed the government mainly) you'd be singing a completely different tune.

I hope Rob Howley's not lurking on here. He'll be looking for a slice of the action there.

 

[big ginger 8]

Leo's quoting Terminator so we're all good here.

 

[Amiga500]

I'll happily place a bet if Labour were in charge (and they've backed the government mainly) you'd be singing a completely different tune.

Absolutely not.

If it was Jezza he'd be getting the exact same. Stupidity is not bounded by political party.

 

[Amiga500]

Yes we get it already you think it's a disaster you decided it was a disaster before anything happened.

I realised it was going to be a disaster precisely because nothing was happening.


But it seems the rest of you are happy to follow along like sheep.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I realised it was going to be a disaster precisely because nothing was happening.


But it seems the rest of you are happy to follow along like sheep.

You're right, you're too damn woke for us mere unthinking sheep. You saw all this coming from miles away because you are just so damn smart and we are all so stupid. If only we had your vast intellect and insight.

We get it, you think you're Mr Fantastic. You originally had a point but now all you're doing is spewing hate, insulting anyone who disagrees with you and giving yourself a good fondle over what a brilliant mind you have. Seriously, shut the **** up because I think we are all getting tired of your venomous, self-congratulating crap.

 

[g6mcg]

But I think what will matter most to if they do something will be weekend numbers and if people still defy going outdoors in groups. My main worry on that front is people clearly not going to exercise but for a stroll (nobody I've seen walking have been walking at a pace for it to constitute exercise).

Isn't a casual stroll still allowed providing you're on your own?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

That has to come from someone who's never exercised outdoors....you go well beyond that to do any real distance. My point simply being you might as well just say don't go outdoors.

what a weird thing to say....just comes like a weird humble brag, "if im running its a marathon or nothing at all damn it!"

I exercise outside every day, sometimes its a run, probably never more than 5km but i came up with this crazy idea of running AROUND a few blocks so never too far from home...do you only run in a straight line directly away from home?

sometimes i do sprints in the park, the park also has some of the free use gym equipment

...just weird