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[COVID-19] General Discussion

Amiga500 said:
You can be as stupid as you like. I don't really care about you or anyone on the forum being thick as ****.


Its when the decision makers of the country **** it up so bad 'cos of their arrogance (or stupidity - its one of the two) and it affects people close to me I get really ****** off.
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Well you've walked yourself right into being ignored. Shame.
 
ncurd said:
Yes and no, do I think any staunch Trump supporter would care absolutely not.

However ads like this will possible penetrate with those swing voters.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...avirus-donald-trump-a9429326.html?jwsource=cl

There's a better one out there as well but I can't find it. Not saying it will certainly work but it's the only real chance they've got. If Trump can portray himself as mildly competent he'll win.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-us-advertisement

Part of the letter from Trump's lawyers read as follows:

"Your station has a responsibility to 'protect the public from false, misleading or deceptive advertising' … your failure to remove this deceptive ad … could put your station's license in jeopardy."

They really could not make this **** up if they tried.:rolleyes:.

themole25 said:
I don't know if it will hurt trump with his voters but it will energize turnout. People are seeing how important a good leader is. Usually our day to day lives aren't really affected by the president, it's just an image thing. Right now we know that incompetence and pettiness can kill Americans at home. I'm not saying Biden would definitely handle this better, but the odds would be in his favor.
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I wonder how they will vote in November?
 
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wow its pretty obvious only one fwit should be in charge. if that gob sh** was in charge the cure would have been given us yesterday and converted to fart lavender scent. its amazing the knowledge of some over a vast range of subjects microbiology, engineering design, politics, psychiatry.... the list goes on. empty vessels......
 


Looks like SK's model is the way to go in the future? Thoughts? Would it work in our democracy? Would peeps be willing to give up certain civil liberties to mass test and let the Govt. know where they are and have been in contact with to prevent this ever happening again? They may not have a choice in the future imo.
 
The_Blindside said:


Looks like SK's model is the way to go in the future? Thoughts? Would it work in our democracy? Would peeps be willing to give up certain civil liberties to mass test and let the Govt. know where they are and have been in contact with to prevent this ever happening again? They may not have a choice in the future imo.
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A complex question with which I don't think we have the answer for yet. SK have implemented a similar response to SARS or MERS outbreaks but COVID-19 is a different beast which is clearly if you look at total numbers of cases. With SK can be said is they've managed to stop the spread however nobody knows if that will keep it contained or wiped out once restrictions are alliviated or how long they'll have to be sustained. The all out approach might be good short term but have huge problems long term.

Some minor help in understanding comes from this picture. Not to be considered an accurate model.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

And nobody really knows who's gonna come out on top after all (probably not the USA) this and it's not until then can it fully understood and analysed.
 
The other problem is how often things like this occur, a virus easily transmitted that rapidly leads to a worldwide Pandemic. Of which you really have to look at major influenza outbreaks before there was real management. Those occured roughly 50 years ago, technology, methodoly and other things have shifted rapidly in that time and likely will do so again by the next one. Compiled with lessons learned from this. You also have to consider the fact the next time it could be a different game entirely the death rate might be higher but not as radially spread or vice versa. It could be easier spread and be a higher death rate every virus is different.
 
Yes, it is a complex question and one I think, whilst peeps are experiencing this current crisis, need to think about. Once this pandemic is under control, peeps and Governments can have very short memories and think this things can go back to the way they were. They can't IMO. One thing that sets the likes of SK, Singapore, HK and Japan apart are that their societies are relatively more compliant or obedient or willing to give up certain freedoms for the public good. This can't really be said of western liberal democracies like ours, so that will be a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

The deaths from this case if it is under 20,000 is deemed to be a success, whilst still being unacceptable. But the knock on costs our society from this are incalculable. Yes, the next virus after covid-19 may not be so bad, but our crisis management of it can sure as hell be a lot better now we have experienced what such a vicious virus is like. SK had Mers last time and only 38 peeps died from that, but were "fully" prepared for this virus, unlike Europe or USA. If nothing good comes out of this current pandemic, it is that public health will get the proper attention it needs. But if nothing else our Governments can't afford to have another crisis like this and bail out the country and have it crash the economy like it has for that it needs to be ready for the next one.
 
themole25 said:
More Americans have died from I
Clovis-19 than the war in Afghanistan.
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Its a nice headline banner but doesn't really say much that's the same for most diseases, the death toll in modern war whilst tragic really isn't anything to write home about compared to the world wars and some conflicts (Korea, Vietnam) post that .
 
It helps put things in perspective. People think we need to spend an ungodly amount of money on the military to protect ourselves but a vocal minority gave been doubting the significance of covid.

keep in mind that Afghanistan has gone on for 18 years while covid-19 has been around for a month here stateside.
 
The_Blindside said:
The deaths from this case if it is under 20,000 is deemed to be a success, whilst still being unacceptable.
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https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/
Public Health England estimates that on average 17,000 people have died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19. However, the yearly deaths vary widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19. Public Health England does not publish a mortality rate for the flu.
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If a high of 28,330 and an average of 17,000 flu deaths a year is acceptable why is it not acceptable in response to a worldwide pandemic? Should we be in full lockdown during winter? Its far more manageable we destribute flu vaccine widely.

I think it will likely be higher but context is importance in deciding what is acceptable and what is not.
 
ncurd said:
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

If a high of 28,330 and an average of 17,000 flu deaths a year is acceptable why is it not acceptable in response to a worldwide pandemic? Should we be in full lockdown during winter? Its far more manageable we destribute flu vaccine widely.

I think it will likely be higher but context is importance in deciding what is acceptable and what is not.
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i think with Flu it is managed those 17000 cases are annual, unlike this Covid 19, which is much more infectious than flu and also kills more in a much shorter period. We could have 20,000 deaths in the next 4-5 months as well as battling to save all the others and the issue is our hospitals are totally overwhelmed. So, yes of course context is important.

I am not arguing for full lockdown if and when the next "unknown" virus hits and yes we certainly don't lock down when the flu hits, but these aren't comparable at the moment. What can we do to avoid future lockdowns like this? Test, test, test, trace and isolate the infected, contact trace those they have been in contact with and self-isolate those. The use of technology to do this, but also Society now being more ready for social distancing now we have experienced this, instead of panic buying at the slightest hint of a virus.

The growing mobility of the world and growing population of the world means we can't expect to shut down every time a vrius happens, but the vigilance has to be inbuilt into our system and also society going forward through greater education and awareness - like washing their hands effectively.

We don't know how severe the next one will be, but that's my point we need to be sure we are ready for it whatever severity it is and not go into this mentality that "oh the next one won't be so bad and we'll deal with it when it comes and what is acceptable for the flu is acceptable response to the next pandemic. Covid 19 was just a one off"
 
The_Blindside said:
snip
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All fair, I think that's part of the problem lockdown is fine this time time round and the economies of the world are taking a huge dent. We are having a worldwide enforced 10 day furlough (actually EMEA its voluntary due to nature of our contracts) but that is opposed to letting masses of employee go. We can probably take the brunt of it this time around provided the likes of Boeing and Airbus survive through it. If the next one of these occurs next year there's no way the economy can take that. If its a once in a generation thing you can probably react the same way in terms of stimulus but this is unpredictable and doesn't occur like clockwork.

Testing like you say can be important in implementing a mini lockdown and isolating carriers before it become a problem. You can't just stop flights because again major impacts, how do you test people coming in, for a new virus how long does testing take? Do we even have budgetary means to ramp up testing in time to even make that feasable?

And this is kinda my point, we are currently in a crisis and whilst we should definitely look at things with a critical eye we can't properly assess what went wrong, what went right, what do we next time until its over. The simple reason for that is the people with the actual knowhow are on the front line currently so any proper asessment can't be done in real time.
 
ncurd said:
All fair, I think that's part of the problem lockdown is fine this time time round and the economies of the world are taking a huge dent. We are having a worldwide enforced 10 day furlough (actually EMEA its voluntary due to nature of our contracts) but that is opposed to letting masses of employee go. We can probably take the brunt of it this time around provided the likes of Boeing and Airbus survive through it. If the next one of these occurs next year there's no way the economy can take that. If its a once in a generation thing you can probably react the same way in terms of stimulus but this is unpredictable and doesn't occur like clockwork.

Testing like you say can be important in implementing a mini lockdown and isolating carriers before it become a problem. You can't just stop flights because again major impacts, how do you test people coming in, for a new virus how long does testing take? Do we even have budgetary means to ramp up testing in time to even make that feasable?

And this is kinda my point, we are currently in a crisis and whilst we should definitely look at things with a critical eye we can't properly assess what went wrong, what went right, what do we next time until its over. The simple reason for that is the people with the actual know-how are on the front line currently so any proper asessment can't be done in real time.
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Sorry to hear Ncurd about your company's worldwide enforced Furlough. I have just been put on Furlough myself from Wednesday until I don't know when. Our clients are understandably putting off work until later this year even in tax. All businesses are going to suffer for a while and the knock-on effect on cash flow is businesses can't pay their staff because nothing is coming in for themselves.

Well, I am not suggesting stopping flights, more like building into the security process taking passengers temperatures i.e. when they go through passport control. Then pull people aside whose temperature is like in excess of 37 degrees and isolate them. Stop the infections at the source as much as you can.

Definitely, we should have a proper assessment of this when it is over when we can see the bigger picture. But any future crisis management will mean the public having to give up certain rights, like being tracked if they are suspected of having the virus and any mass testing from any future virus, and that is something worth thinking about now. This virus has brought out the best in people in pulling together and the amazing work done by NHS staff, but it has also exposed our society's worst traits as well - panic buying and people just not realising how serious this was (how could they?). I am a libertarian at heart, but sometimes just for the public good, I think we need to take it out of people's hands because there are many who won't be told to what is right because they don't like being told what to do.
 

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